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Post by milospinstripe on Sept 19, 2014 17:37:52 GMT -5
Who makes the better criminal? Marvin from High School Big Shot or Jimmy from I Accuse My Parents. Both decided at a young age that they needed mob ties, and they were both trying to impress the coquettish young ladies in their lives.
But which one do you think is the better outlaw? Jimmy obviously dressed the part better, but Marvin seemed to have better connections, particularly the well-spoken, master safe cracker.
Both had terrible home lives, but I think Marvin definitely had worse problems at home. Jimmy's people seemed to be doing much better financially and had much more fun with their alcoholism than Marvin's depressing father. Jimmy's dad was constantly giving him money: on birthdays, after winning essay writing contests, and just whenever it struck him. Marvin, on the other hand, had to split his last six dollars with his deadbeat, drunken father, just so his dad could attempt to woo some widowed floozy that he may one day leech off of as he has been leeching off his large-lipped son for so long.
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Post by RedTom on Sept 20, 2014 1:39:23 GMT -5
Well Jimmy got a much larger amount of cash in the end, although it has been a long time since I saw High School Big Shot. I should really take a look at that one again.
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Post by milospinstripe on Sept 20, 2014 2:30:25 GMT -5
It's a good episode, but I'd have to say, probably THE most depressing MST episode ever. Nothing goes right for Marvin, and such a downer ending. At least I Accuse My Parents ends on a somewhat positive note. Jimmy gets put on probation, sure, but he avoids prison by outing his parents as uncaring, uninterested individuals, plus it seems he ends up with the buxom blonde night club singer in the end too.
But watch High School Big shot again if you get a chance, some great lines in that one.
Marv's Dad: Got that new job coming up soon, son.
Servo: Gonna be the town drunk!!!
Lmao!!
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Post by RedTom on Sept 20, 2014 2:57:43 GMT -5
hahaha! Nice. Still, no the most downer ending in the show was Sidehackers.
I do remember what happens to Marv's father, and how much it was botched up completely when all was said and done. At least Jimmy got to spend his money as he earned it doing all of those crimes.
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Sept 24, 2014 16:47:48 GMT -5
Who was the better criminal? You might better ask who sucked less at being a criminal.
Both were delusional, desperate, money-hungry, status-seeking and driven largely by the promise of sex. That said...
If I absolutely had to, though, I'd have to say that Marv (High School Big Shot) was a better criminal -- or sucked at it less -- than Jimmy (I Accuse My Parents). At least Marv was capable of coherent, independent thought and initiative, and kept his eyes and ears open to discover the opportunity and figure out how to exploit it -- even though he promptly ruined it from the get-go by blabbing about it to that rotten-ass Betty chick. Remember boys, women are evil.
Jimmy, on the other hand, couldn't connect the dots if there were only two of them on the page. He developed a whopping case of Munchhausen Syndrome in the process of constructing a fantasy home life in order to escape his real home life, and made the mistake of believing his own b#ll$4*t and actually trying to live the lie. He offers to pick up the tab at the after-hours club in order to look like a big shot, but has to pass a bad check in the process, sooo-oooo... he blindly accepts a "job" offer promising fast easy money from his crush's nightclub-owner boyfriend who emits a vibe of shadiness so heavy it's almost visible to the naked eye, and then he's actually, genuinely surprised when he finally figures out what kind of shadiness he's involved in -- "You didn't tell me I was driving a car to a hold-up!" Cripes, what an idiot.
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Sept 24, 2014 17:00:03 GMT -5
Well Jimmy got a much larger amount of cash in the end, although it has been a long time since I saw High School Big Shot. I should really take a look at that one again. Not only that, but Marv also dies in the end. It just doesn't seem fair, really. Marv was way smarter, and showed more initiative -- the guy was actually capable of planning a caper, f'cripesake -- and Jimmy ended up getting off with only a couple of years' probation and got the girl in the end despite his gullibility, his lack of impulse control, his complete lack of any conscious iniitative or intuition and being so intensely stupid that he couldn't find his own butthole with a flashlight and a map. |
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Post by sol-survivor on Sept 24, 2014 20:19:10 GMT -5
Not only that, but Marv also dies in the end. Marvin doesn't die, although the actor died shortly after making this movie. He doesn't even get shot as far as I can see, he just gets thrown to the ground and is probably crying about Betty. At the end you can see him and his surviving accomplice being put into a police car. Just wait until he finds out about his father.  To me Marvin is bad-luck-smart and Jimmy is good-luck-stupid. Marv had everything planned out and if he hadn't told Betty he might have gotten away with the money, although if he and Betty had gotten married I don't think he would have been too happy for long. Jimmy didn't plan anything, the only one who died was the bad guy, and he ends up with the girl. Everything just falls into place for him to get a better life. He might not even have a record if he doesn't do anything else stupid. Of course, as exceptionally unobservant as he is he might step into an open manhole on the way out of the courthouse. |
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Sept 24, 2014 22:05:52 GMT -5
Not only that, but Marv also dies in the end. Marvin doesn't die, although the actor died shortly after making this movie. He doesn't even get shot as far as I can see, he just gets thrown to the ground and is probably crying about Betty. At the end you can see him and his surviving accomplice being put into a police car. Just wait until he finds out about his father... Huh... I stand corrected... I've seen that episode a crapdillion times, and it's still kind of tough to follow what happens toward the end of that scene. I'll have to pay closer attention to that shot next time. Seeing as Marv did survive, still... he probably got some hard time owing to the amount of money -- and the fact that it was "hot" -- and the fact that narcotics were involved. Meanwhile... dumbass Jimmy gets probation, and the girl. "I'm stupid -- yes, indeed, I'm stupid...!"--Joel, to the tune of Fats Domino's "I'm Walkin'", in I Accuse My Parents |
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Post by mrsphyllistorgo on Sept 27, 2014 12:26:51 GMT -5
Hmmmm. As far as brains go, Marvin is of course out in front by a street in the crime department, but not in the picking a girl who isn't a stone cold sociopath department. Jimmy really had him beat there, Kitty was a warmhearted gem who wore ruffly aprons to cook for him!
I'm going to give it to Jimmy because he managed to have that je nais se quoi that made everybody around him want to help him and give him money! Poor Marv, the only guy who ever even tried to assist him was his ass of an English teacher and even he turned on him like a rabid dog for writing Betty's paper. You flunk out forever and no scholarship even though I openly admit I can't blame you because of my hurt fee fees! What a jerk.
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Post by continosbuckle on Sept 27, 2014 15:01:04 GMT -5
Marvin doesn't die, although the actor died shortly after making this movie. He doesn't even get shot as far as I can see, he just gets thrown to the ground and is probably crying about Betty. At the end you can see him and his surviving accomplice being put into a police car. Just wait until he finds out about his father... Huh... I stand corrected... I've seen that episode a crapdillion times, and it's still kind of tough to follow what happens toward the end of that scene. I'll have to pay closer attention to that shot next time. Seeing as Marv did survive, still... he probably got some hard time owing to the amount of money -- and the fact that it was "hot" -- and the fact that narcotics were involved. Meanwhile... dumbass Jimmy gets probation, and the girl. Yeah, High School Big Shot didn't waste any time ending after the heist went to hell, so it's easier to forget details like Marv living, especially if you're used to being bludgeoned by some moral at the end of a movie because the movie didn't do an adequate job of telling its own story. Anyway, Marv went to jail because someone died. When you're committing a crime and someone dies, even if it's a fellow or rival criminal, and even if you're not the guy who killed the victim, justice will run a train on you. And it's an amusing contrast considering that Jimmy actually killed the guy in his story but got off with a slap on the wrist. Comparing Kitty with Betty - yeah, Jimmy lucked out there, but we do have to make some concessions to the notion that Betty at least seemed more like a real human being. Every time I see I Accuse My Parents I find myself amused by how fast and hard lounge singer/mob boss girlfriend Kitty falls for credulous dope fresh out of high school Jimmy, who jabbers on about his mother when a beautiful woman's flirting with him. Betty's motivations may have been crazy, but at least they're exaggerated from something realistic. With Kitty, it's almost "I've been waiting for an eight year-old boy to come in and sweep me off my feet, and HERE YOU ARE!" And good point about how everyone seemed to want to help Jimmy, even or perhaps especially the diner owner at the end, who knew nothing about Jimmy except that he was going to try to rob him at gunpoint. As an aside, was I the only person to get a strong homosexual vibe from that relationship? And, amusingly, the filmmakers may have realized that, so they tried to defuse it with the whole "you have to go to church with me, Jimmy" thing, which, nowadays, doesn't defuse it but merely makes that vibe stronger. |
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Post by kansas on Sept 28, 2014 18:03:02 GMT -5
At least Marvin only robbed other criminals who were worse than he and his accomplices. He was the original Dexter; only not homicidal. Jimmy was so dumb that when two hoods who hate his guts asked him to follow them into an alley, he actually did it. Give that kid a Darwin award.
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Post by milospinstripe on Sept 29, 2014 4:36:49 GMT -5
Hmmmm. As far as brains go, Marvin is of course out in front by a street in the crime department, but not in the picking a girl who isn't a stone cold sociopath department. Jimmy really had him beat there, Kitty was a warmhearted gem who wore ruffly aprons to cook for him! I'm going to give it to Jimmy because he managed to have that je nais se quoi that made everybody around him want to help him and give him money! Poor Marv, the only guy who ever even tried to assist him was his ass of an English teacher and even he turned on him like a rabid dog for writing Betty's paper. You flunk out forever and no scholarship even though I openly admit I can't blame you because of my hurt fee fees! What a jerk. Yes, Marvin was able to plan a caper that probably would have been very successful if he hadn't decided to tell that broad about it. She was a definitely a nut, her other boyfriend too. You don't just walk in on somebody else's crime and try and take it over. Marvin also had the ability to successfully scout out skilled and trustworthy associates to carry out his criminal endeavor. If only he were a better judge of character when it came to his female company. I share your outlook on Jimmy's natural, nervous charisma that simply brought the best out in people. Look at his folks for instance, they were lushes, sure, but they had the best parties and seemed to be having a wonderful time. Look at all the friends they had! Marvin, on the other hand, brought out the worst in everyone around him. His father, too old to work, probably because of Marvin's draining presence, and passed out drunk after the imminent rejection from his lady friend, also likely due to her finding out that Marvin was his son. His teacher seemed to change his opinion rather quick on Marvin once he found out he helped the young lady cheat on her assignment. Taking away the scholarship seemed very harsh, perhaps Marvin had a history of anti-social, disreputable behavior at that school and the cheating incident was merely the last straw for the magnanimous Literature teacher who gave Marvin every chance in the world. Sure, he did okay at his job as a shipping clerk, but as soon as the circumstance presented itself, he decides to rob his boss, the only man who was generous enough to give him a job in the first place. Instead of maybe speaking to his boss to see if there was any way he could get in on the heroin racket, he decides on a whim to steal his boss's hard earned drug money. Jimmy, while admittedly naive and overly eager, was able to hold down two jobs, as a shoe store employee and as a low-level associate of the mafia. And he still found the time to write award winning Essay's for the Essay Contest! In conclusion, I'm going to have to argue that Jimmy was indeed the more successful, vastly more talented criminal. As you mentioned, he was able to con everyone around him into handing over their money to him and give him jobs. He is able to con the diner owner into giving him a job, a free room, and a delicious meal, as continosbuckle mentioned, when all the greasy spoon operator knew about him was that he intended to rob him at gun point. Not to mention how masterfully he was able to convince the judge that he was not to blame for his mafioso lifestyle because his parents didn't dote on him enough. That judge didn't expect to have such a cool customer as Jimmy in his courtroom that morning. In the case of Kitty, of course she feel hard and fast for young, dapper Jimmy. He won the Essay Contest for heaven's sake! And I think she knew just by spending a few minutes with him that he was headed for bigger things than that shoe salesman job. I don't think it was an accident that she was wholly responsible for the sequence of events that put Jimmy under the wing of a local mafia don. Kitty likely recognized she was in the presence of a upwardly mobile young talent when she met Jimmy, and that her mobster boyfriend has run his course, in crime and in the relationship, that is why she didn't stop Jimmy from confronting his old mentor, she knew that it was Jimmy's time now and her ex old man was as good as dead if he squared off with sly, criminal mastermind Jimmy. |
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