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Post by TwinkieMcGee on Nov 29, 2016 12:13:59 GMT -5
How many minutes would a complete KTMA host segment DVD be? Just a ballpark figure. There's a youtube video which contains all the KTMA host segments from K04-K21 (except for the previously lost final segment from K15) which clocks in at around 2 hours and 18 minutes, so I'd probably say around maybe 2 hours and 40 minutes?
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Post by CrowTrobotfan92 on Nov 29, 2016 19:36:39 GMT -5
So I just thought of something..... You know how both episodes were shown the same day they were aired? ...maybe perhaps Invaders from the Deep and Revenge of the Mysterons just happened to be on the same tape? Maybe that's why they didn't find K03. Just a simple guess.
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Post by Triple_sSs on Nov 29, 2016 21:36:32 GMT -5
So I just thought of something..... You know how both episodes were shown the same day they were aired? ...maybe perhaps Invaders from the Deep and Revenge of the Mysterons just happened to be on the same tape? Maybe that's why they didn't find K03. Just a simple guess. Hmm, well only K01 had a reel slate at the beginning, so perhaps it's plausible.
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Post by Treadwell on Nov 30, 2016 1:47:23 GMT -5
No, there were no broadcast tapes long enough for that in those days. In fact, each episode would have covered two tapes on its own.
Remember the CC slates? "Show 405, Reel One". One of two.
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Post by Udvarnoky on Nov 30, 2016 8:23:48 GMT -5
Broadcast masters are generally not the master tapes, though I suppose they very well could have been in the case of KTMA.
Did we ever determine what format MST3K used during its general run? We know Comedy Central used D-1 broadcast tapes, but the types of artifacts we see on Shout!'s releases suggest a truly analog source. Most likely BBI produced a master tape of some unknown analog format, which was then dubbed by/for Comedy Central to D-1, the latter being better suited for constant re-running without quality loss.
As far as the KTMA tapes, Jim Mallon referred to them as 3/4" tapes in his 2008 interview with Satellite News. Don't know if that helps narrow it down for the tech-heads among us. U-matic, perhaps? Surely it was the same format that Jim and Kevin shot their other KTMA comedy on:
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Post by Treadwell on Nov 30, 2016 13:48:28 GMT -5
Broadcast masters are generally not the master tapes, though I suppose they very well could have been in the case of KTMA. For in-house, (that is, broadcasting from the same facility where they were produced) they generally would be one and the same. True, by the CC days they would be shipping dubs. Yep, those are Betacam or Beta SP hits, which means what Rhino and Shout! have been getting from Mallon are dubs. If the Betas were the archive masters, they wouldn't say "D1" on the slate. I believe the show was mastered on D1, with clones sent to CC on the same format. Why BBI has been sending dubs made who-knows-when-and-why is anyone's guess, but's it's a shame. Now that Shout! is the owner and keeper of the tapes, I hope we'll be seeing fewer analog artifacts on the DVDs. 3/4" would make sense. In fact, it might have been the format they were recording the host and theater segments on for a while into the CC era, regardless of what the master format was. Note that Frank is holding up two 3/4" tapes in the cc 2nd season open during the "we'll send him cheesy movies" lyric. There were U-Matic tapes made as long as 74 minutes, but I've never seen one---60 is the longest 3/4" tape I've worked with. The longer the tape, the thinner the tape, and thus more fragile and prone to dropouts/getting eaten. 74 wouldn't be of use to a 90-minute show, so they would have used two 60s. D1 tapes got up to 94 minutes, but again, by the slates we can see they used more than one, so we're looking at two tapes again (in this case 76s...D1 had oddball lengths). A couple of years ago I was going to be Joel's handler at a con, and I was going to grill him about stuff like this until he threw me against a wall. Alas, I was switched to someone else at the last minute.
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Post by Udvarnoky on Nov 30, 2016 15:51:27 GMT -5
Yep, those are Betacam or Beta SP hits, which means what Rhino and Shout! have been getting from Mallon are dubs. If the Betas were the archive masters, they wouldn't say "D1" on the slate. I don't follow. Doesn't the D-1 slate only appear on the Comedy Central broadcast copies? Or are you suggesting that the mere fact that Comedy Central had D-1 tapes means that the master tapes were in that format? Shout! has owned MST3K for a full year now, and their most recent set continues to have analog artifacts, so I don't feel there's much evidence that Mallon was denying them a superior, digital source.
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Post by Treadwell on Dec 1, 2016 0:09:09 GMT -5
I'm trying to remember the last time Shout! left one of those CC slates on the DVD. Might not have been within the last year, I don't know.
Yes I'm saying if BBI was making D1 tapes to send to CC, they would have mastered their copies on it, too. You're already making one, why not two? Makes no sense to use an inferior medium for your own archives if you have better stuff to use right there.
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Post by Ron Codpiece on Dec 1, 2016 0:35:50 GMT -5
I just skimmed through K02 and I'm a little bit confused by the ending. Joel says "we'll be right back with the movie," and then the show ends. What's going on here? Was this segment originally supposed to go in the middle of the film but was moved to the end before the other segments were shot? I think that the original plan may been to show all three of the episodes back-to-back on Thanksgiving, which would explain why K03 had that sketch with Crow explaining Thanksgiving to "Gypsum" despite airing afterwards.
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Post by superandroidtron on Dec 1, 2016 0:55:37 GMT -5
I just skimmed through K02 and I'm a little bit confused by the ending. Joel says "we'll be right back with the movie," and then the show ends. What's going on here? Was this segment originally supposed to go in the middle of the film but was moved to the end before the other segments were shot? I think that the original plan may been to show all three of the episodes back-to-back on Thanksgiving, which would explain why K03 had that sketch with Crow explaining Thanksgiving to "Gypsum" despite airing afterwards. Good point. That would make a lot of sense.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 1:03:07 GMT -5
I'm trying to remember the last time Shout! left one of those CC slates on the DVD. Might not have been within the last year, I don't know. Yes I'm saying if BBI was making D1 tapes to send to CC, they would have mastered their copies on it, too. You're already making one, why not two? Makes no sense to use an inferior medium for your own archives if you have better stuff to use right there. The last DVD set I bought (XXXV) had the slate for Being from Another Planet.
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Post by Shark on Dec 1, 2016 7:02:43 GMT -5
The Comedy Central broadcast masters were on D-2 tapes. D-2 could run 32, 94, or 208 minutes.
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Post by Udvarnoky on Dec 1, 2016 8:12:16 GMT -5
I'm trying to remember the last time Shout! left one of those CC slates on the DVD. Might not have been within the last year, I don't know. Yes I'm saying if BBI was making D1 tapes to send to CC, they would have mastered their copies on it, too. You're already making one, why not two? Makes no sense to use an inferior medium for your own archives if you have better stuff to use right there. I guess the other possibility is that they may have the occasional D1 dub lying around, and use it when they do. I find all of this maddening. Shout! is generally pretty open with the fans, so it would be nice if we found out definitively what format(s) the show was shot and mastered on.
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Post by JLH on Dec 1, 2016 10:09:12 GMT -5
The Comedy Central broadcast masters were on D-2 tapes. D-2 could run 32, 94, or 208 minutes. I always theorized that the tape-change moment for each episode was the non-bumpered, post-second host segment break. But if the tapes were those lengths, then that likely wouldn't have been the case.
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Post by Treadwell on Dec 1, 2016 12:24:29 GMT -5
The Comedy Central broadcast masters were on D-2 tapes. D-2 could run 32, 94, or 208 minutes. d'oh, silly me, of course! READING IS FUNDIMENTAL
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