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Post by mistermister on Dec 14, 2007 3:25:28 GMT -5
It would be great if I could believe that even one politician wasn't crooked. Unfortunately, as the saying goes, one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. It's too bad that the inverse couldn't be true.
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Post by Mitchell on Dec 14, 2007 3:30:00 GMT -5
So your trashing a man with a sterling reputation because the cliche sounds good?
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Post by mistermister on Dec 14, 2007 3:33:14 GMT -5
No, I'm trashing him because I do not believe politicians are anything but self-serving.
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Post by Dave Walker on Dec 14, 2007 10:01:49 GMT -5
I haven't bothered to read it yet, but I doubt that list is anywhere close to complete. Besides, did anyone notice that the only Red Sox named were ex-players? Mitchell is employed by the Red Sox. Go figure. While that may be true, it would be foolish to overlook the fact that Eric Gagné was named, and he did pitch for the Red Sox last year. In fact, he finished off game one of the World Series. And I agree with Mitch about Sen. Mitchell, gross generalizations being made here.
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Post by Mitchell on Dec 14, 2007 11:02:37 GMT -5
For me, the bottom line of the report is that assertion that drug use was evident in all 30 clubhouses. Honestly, everyone in Major League baseball should be ashamed.
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Post by Bix Dugan on Dec 14, 2007 11:51:20 GMT -5
They only got 2 or 3 people to talk, and you get these results?
What if dozens of people talked? Wow. But not a surprise.
I don't understand why the Players Union is so adamant in their refusal to allow blood testing for HGH. If you were a clean player, why would you want your competition to be able to use enhancing substances that can't be detected? I'm assuming less than half of the players are using, so the 50% (plus) should be able to vote such testing into their contract.
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Post by Mr. Atari on Dec 14, 2007 12:51:30 GMT -5
$20 million to tell us something we all knew already? With all due respect to Sen. Mitchell's reputation (and our own Mitchell's...uh..."reputation"), I'm disappointed that a former federal prosecutor would stoop to naming names with such flimsy pretext and evidence. Then again, hearsay is the best kind of say. That being said, I'm not above a little schaudenfreude. So I enjoy that Clemens is getting raked on this. Maddux was always the better pitcher.
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Post by MonsterX on Dec 14, 2007 13:13:41 GMT -5
Making a big list like this and pointing fingers does seem a bit sensational. We all know that there’s a lot of juicing going on in professional sports. If they care enough to stop it all they have to do is to have an independent agency start popping random drug tests on athletes with no warning. Like maybe right before a game some dude shows up and conducts an “operation golden flow” on like half the team out of nowhere.
There! A solution to the problem and it didn’t cost millions of tax payer dollars. Easy peasy.
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Post by callipygias on Dec 14, 2007 13:34:50 GMT -5
Honestly, everyone in Major League baseball should be ashamed. Agreed. And football. And soccer. And bicycling. Etc.... It kills me that these grown men--grown men with children and families in most cases--lie about it after they're caught, yet they have no problem visiting schools and lecturing on responsibilities and character. (Mark McGwire fessed up, I guess.) $20 million to tell us something we all knew already? Still, it has to go through its little bureaucratic loops if it's going to get fixed. If they care enough to stop it all they have to do is to have an independent agency start popping random drug tests on athletes with no warning. There! A solution to the problem and it didn’t cost millions of tax payer dollars. Easy peasy. If only. I heard an interview on ESPN Radio with the guy who created the infamous--though alleged (pff!)--drug Bonds took and he said that creating something that the drug-testers can't identify is as easy as creating a new molecule, or something. Sounds difficult to me, but he made it sound like any avocational sciene-type fellow with a test tube could do it in his garage over a weekend.
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Post by Mod City on Dec 14, 2007 14:16:10 GMT -5
That being said, I'm not above a little schaudenfreude. So I enjoy that Clemens is getting raked on this. Maddux was always the better pitcher. I always knew in my heart that there was a really good reason I hated Clemens. I was never a Braves fan, but Maddux was amazing in his prime. And it always ticked me off that ESPN and everyone else was calling Gagne the greatest closer of all time when he was still so new on the scene. Something deep down inside told me it was all wrong. And as much as we all knew about all this, this is a much bigger reveal than has ever happened before. That's progress, I suppose.
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Post by Captain Hygiene on Dec 14, 2007 15:43:01 GMT -5
Did all this steroid hooplah start in the last few years, or was it around when I was little, and I was just blind to it?
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Post by callipygias on Dec 14, 2007 16:37:51 GMT -5
Did all this steroid hooplah start in the last few years, or was it around when I was little, and I was just blind to it? I don't think the real "hooplah" started until '98, with the McGwire/Sosa home run race, and then it exploded with Barry Bonds this decade, but I also remember Jose Canseco's physique stirring it up a bit back in the late '80s. I was a little fellow back in the '70s when the monster weightlifters like Lou Ferrigno were picking up cars and dragging semi-trucks around with their teeth, but I don't think the general public ever talked about steroids back then, did they? Obviously those guys were all hopped up, though.
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Post by Mr. Atari on Dec 14, 2007 16:46:44 GMT -5
The first time I heard of steroids was with Lyle Alzado.
That must have been the mid to late '80s.
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Post by Mod City on Dec 14, 2007 17:11:13 GMT -5
Yeah, things definitely started heating up after the home run race of '98. Home runs don't just magically appear out of nowhere like that. And you had guys like Brady Anderson hitting 50 home runs a season. As a leadoff hitter.
I remember when Canseco still played for Oakland (with MacGwire, no less) that most everyone who wasn't blind thought something was up based on his biceps alone.
I also remember the buzz around Alzado. Seems that there was more talk about it in professional football circles than in baseball. At least in the 80s.
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Post by Crowfan on Dec 14, 2007 20:08:03 GMT -5
The first time I heard of steroids was with Lyle Alzado. That must have been the mid to late '80s. That was the first time I heard about steroids at all. The first time I heard about steroids in connection with baseball was Ken Caminiti when he confessed and it was the cover story in Sports Illustrated. Guess that was the mid-90's but before McGwire and Sosa
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