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Post by gorncaptain on Nov 14, 2018 2:56:31 GMT -5
The movies didn't have to be licensed at the time. KTMA had the broadcast rights to them, and they would have aired whether Joel and company riffed on them or not. Had there been a second season, there surely would have been repeats. If the new series could get some of the films that weren't re-riffed in the Comedy Channel/Comedy Central era, that could open the door to having the KTMA versions as extras on a future release.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Nov 14, 2018 8:57:25 GMT -5
The movies didn't have to be licensed at the time. KTMA had the broadcast rights to them, and they would have aired whether Joel and company riffed on them or not. Had there been a second season, there surely would have been repeats. . Having the rights to air them and having the rights to alter them are two separate contracts (though this was shady back when MST was on KTMA). Sci-Fi had the rights to air Star Wars back in 97, but that doesn't mean they had the rights to do a riff of it. The same goes for a lot of screeners MST recieved through the network, which had rightsholders willing to have them aired, but not as an MST episode. All of this is a moot point though, because Jordan Fields confirmed that since this is a new contract they could feasibly release them. It's just that Joel has no desire to do so.
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Post by gorncaptain on Nov 14, 2018 23:52:50 GMT -5
You bring up an interesting question. Was there even a precedent for riffing back in 1988 that a film distributor could even conceive of, and say "don't do that"? Although many a movie I saw on local channels back then were so chopped up for broadcast standards and commercials, a guy and two robots talking over them at the bottom of the screen seems minor in the scheme of things. The closest thing I can think of is Movie Macabre, which once in a blue moon cut to Elvira reacting to a scene in a movie, possibly as way to cut around some excess blood and gore. There were occasional skits where she would be talking to characters in that week's film as well.
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Post by madisoncarter on Nov 16, 2018 19:08:06 GMT -5
The movies didn't have to be licensed at the time. KTMA had the broadcast rights to them That means they still had to be licensed; it was just done by KTMA itself before MST started.
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Post by ProjectedPaul on Nov 20, 2018 20:13:07 GMT -5
An MST3k fan on Facebook and Twitter just received their copy of Shout's Volume 8 re-issue. He just provided me the rights licensing info:
Hobgoblins (C) Copyright 1988 Rick Sloane Monster A-Go Go: under license from Bill Rebane on behalf of The MacDonald Trust The Dead Talk Back (C) Copyright 2018 Wade Williams LLC
The Phantom Planet appears to be public domain, as there is no licensing info for it on the back of the DVD cover.
Bonus features:
Hobgoblins Revisited Myron Natwick Talks Back Bill Rebane Speaks
Myron Natwick played Raymond Milburn in The Dead Talk Back.
At DragonCon, Daniel Griffith of Ballyhoo Films told me there was unseen materials that he filmed for his bonus materials for the 2009 Shout Factory Special Edition release of Hobgoblins that would make the cut for the MST3k re-issue.
As I suspected, Wade Williams is now the current owner of Dead Talk Back, having acquired it from Sinister Cinema years ago.
Not surprised that Bill Rebane has ownership of Monster A-Go Go. He told me in an e-mail exchange years ago that he was the one who licensed it, as well as Giant Spider Invasion, to Rhino for the Volume 8 and Volume 10 (10.2) original MST3k releases.
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Post by marsilies on Nov 24, 2018 10:41:50 GMT -5
You bring up an interesting question. Was there even a precedent for riffing back in 1988 that a film distributor could even conceive of, and say "don't do that"? From what I can find, the show Svengoolie, which has been on, off and on, since the 1970s, has a segment they sometimes use called "Sven-surround," which adds sound effects and commentary to the movie. I can't find when during the show's long run this was first featured though. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SvengoolieCanned Film Fesitval from 1986 also had commedic vignettes about the movies they were screening, albeit only during breaks in the film. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canned_Film_FestivalA few other precursors are mentioned here: forrestcrow.proboards.com/thread/3908/mst3k-precursors
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Post by marsilies on Nov 24, 2018 11:56:41 GMT -5
Having the rights to air them and having the rights to alter them are two separate contracts (though this was shady back when MST was on KTMA)... I actually think this is actually pretty complex, but for some films, airing and altering rights might've been included in a single contract, even back on KTMA. I think a major factor was the director's rights over edits of a film, which would only affect major studio productions after the end of the studio system. I don't think the MST3K team have ever spoken about the legal specifics of the TV licensing, but it seems like at least a few of the independent films MST3K did gave them copies that couldn't be aired as-is. There's the scene in City Limits of a naked woman bathing in a water tower that Joel had to cover up with an umbrella, for example, something that wouldn't have ever aired uncensored on broadcast TV. There's also the infamous rape scene cut from Side Hackers, which while not showing any nudity was probably too graphic for airing on TV at the time. So it seems likely that a good portion of independent films may not have had the budget to make a standardized "tv edit," and just gave the film as-is to networks/stations to edit as they saw fit. The directors on these films likely didn't have an rights to "final cut" or otherwise on edits, and the producers likely didn't care what happened to them after they were sold to TV. Now, for earlier major studio films made during the "studio system," i.e from the 1920s-1960s, directors usually didn't have any rights over the edit; they typically weren't even involved in the edit. Directors at this time were considered just another cog in the machine for the assembly-line like process of making a movie; the directors were responsible for directing, the editors for editing, and the only one supervising everything was the producer. Also, most of these films were also made during the Hayes Code, 1930-1968, so nothing objectionable to the FCC would've been in the original film. Thus, studios likely didn't bother with TV edits of these films, but may have allowed TV networks/stations the rights to edit so that they could edit for time and fit them into a standard time block with commercials. It's only major studio films from the 70s and onwards that directors would typically have any rights over the edits of the films, and thus there may be official "TV edits" approved by the director that were distributed to stations, which the stations had no right to further change. I know, for example, that Terry Gilliam had a sort of "first crack" over the TV edit of 1985's Brazil, in that he could oversee the TV edit if he chose, otherwise Universal could make whatever cut they wanted if Gilliam declined. Gilliam did decline, burned over the fight with Universal over the theatrical edit, So Universal ended up releasing the "Love Conquers All" cut that they almost released to theaters. So I don't think MTS3K was ever separately negotiating for a right to alter/edit, but instead utilizing films that came with with those rights included in the distribution package. This consisted mostly of major studio films through the 1960s, or independent films, which is roughly in line with the films MST3K used. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_systemen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Production_Codeen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_cut_privilege
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Post by travis on Nov 25, 2018 13:50:40 GMT -5
An MST3k fan on Facebook and Twitter just received their copy of Shout's Volume 8 re-issue. He just provided me the rights licensing info: Hobgoblins (C) Copyright 1988 Rick Sloane Monster A-Go Go: under license from Bill Rebane on behalf of The MacDonald Trust The Dead Talk Back (C) Copyright 2018 Wade Williams LLC The Phantom Planet appears to be public domain, as there is no licensing info for it on the back of the DVD cover. Bonus features: Hobgoblins Revisited Myron Natwick Talks Back Bill Rebane Speaks Myron Natwick played Raymond Milburn in The Dead Talk Back. At DragonCon, Daniel Griffith of Ballyhoo Films told me there was unseen materials that he filmed for his bonus materials for the 2009 Shout Factory Special Edition release of Hobgoblins that would make the cut for the MST3k re-issue. As I suspected, Wade Williams is now the current owner of Dead Talk Back, having acquired it from Sinister Cinema years ago. Not surprised that Bill Rebane has ownership of Monster A-Go Go. He told me in an e-mail exchange years ago that he was the one who licensed it, as well as Giant Spider Invasion, to Rhino for the Volume 8 and Volume 10 (10.2) original MST3k releases. PHANTOM PLANET was one that got released by MGM on VHS back when, but Wade Williams also released on DVD. I'm surprised Shout didn't license it from either party (like they did with PD staple NIGHT OF THE BLOOD BEAST).
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Dec 1, 2018 23:43:49 GMT -5
MST's licensing was used as an example of non-fair use in Lindsay Ellis's new video discussing product placement. It really doesn't add much to the discussion, but I thought it was neat that it popped up.
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Post by gorncaptain on Dec 2, 2018 16:08:58 GMT -5
All the movies were licensed? She must have missed the Public Domain movies and shorts they did.
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Post by timmy on Dec 12, 2018 14:26:18 GMT -5
any news on the unreleased episodes coming to DVD (or any type of update). i know Toho is Noho with Godzilla and Wade says no with XM (and Hart two with her films) but is there a chance we get the others.
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Post by davidbeegah on Dec 13, 2018 0:07:12 GMT -5
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Post by travis on Dec 13, 2018 10:17:51 GMT -5
Glad to see Shout is almost caught up with the reissue sets! any news on the unreleased episodes coming to DVD (or any type of update). i know Toho is Noho with Godzilla and Wade says no with XM (and Hart two with her films) but is there a chance we get the others. If there is any news, this will be the first place it gets reported!
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Post by hippiecop on Dec 20, 2018 9:49:31 GMT -5
I like that they are ramping up the release schedule, instead of every 3 or 4 months. It looks likely they will have all the original rhinos done by the end of 2019. Now I'm going to be greedy and hope that the rest of the unreleased single episodes get done. Anyone for "Singles Vol 2..."
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Dec 20, 2018 10:42:47 GMT -5
Technically the rest of the singles are already released. They're just online exclusives through Shout's store.
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