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Post by Diet Kolos on Feb 9, 2020 12:49:12 GMT -5
So glad to hear things are moving along, thanks again Diet Kolos! Do we know for sure if this agreement will be for both the regular and MSTied versions of the films? Who knows. We're not privy to what's actually in the settlement, other than vague clues given in subsequent filings. What we do know is that Shout's been negotiating on and off with Susan for a decade, and it wouldn't make financial sense for Shout to NOT include the MST versions. So it'd be a total waste to negotiate this settlement with Susan for 6+ months and the only outcome is, say, Susan gets some residuals from the back-sales of Volume 34, or even just her movies get blu-ray releases. Both parties probably understand that the MST releases drive the bus, money-wise. They've danced around each other for years, negotiating for a decade. Its just that the backdrop of a lawsuit with potentially messy discovery does a lot to focus people on getting an outcome. As I postulated further down in the Reddit post I made on this, Shout's MSJ filing (unusual for a Defendant to file, btw), very subtly opens the door to the idea that Susan may not actually control these films as she's always claimed, or that they may have accidentally lapsed into the public domain. In all likelihood, that's not the case, but...this is the first time anyone's ever called Susan's bluff on this, and if this were to proceed to trial, she'd have to prove it. With the risk of losing. Usually when Susan sues she either loses on a Fair Use basis, OR (like with Rhino and Amazing Colossal Man) the offending party pulls their release and Susan probably gets a hearty out-of-court cash payment because its not worth litigating. But after a decade of back-and-forth with her, it seems like Shout decided to take their chances releasing the documentary, which would precipitate a lawsuit, wherein they could raise the question about Susan's claimed ownership in a legally binding court setting, forcing her to the table to make a deal. That's my read on the situation, anyways.
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Post by travis on Feb 11, 2020 17:36:26 GMT -5
" " Good points! This whole ongoing situation is fascinating.
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Post by markymark on Feb 12, 2020 8:40:48 GMT -5
I think this bodes well for future MST3K sets as well as having them on Blu-ray in non MST3K versions as well. Time will tell !
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Post by Diet Kolos on Feb 12, 2020 13:58:21 GMT -5
Yesterday, the judge granted the most recent motion for extension of time, but in her order stipulated that there shall be no further extensions. So we should know SOMETHING by early March.
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Post by angilasman on Feb 12, 2020 23:58:19 GMT -5
This is very cool. In addition to a MST3K set of these titles I'd also get a Blu-ray of It Conquered the World if offered. I have a lot of affection for that flick!
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Post by CrowTrobotfan92 on Feb 18, 2020 22:17:07 GMT -5
Really glad to hear Susan may finally be coming to agreements with Shout. I’m really not at all concerned about the MST versions not getting releases..... but who knows what the future holds....
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Post by travis on Feb 20, 2020 18:59:25 GMT -5
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Post by hippiecop on Feb 20, 2020 19:32:09 GMT -5
Damn it ! THIS time I was actually starting to believe it might happen. Very disappointing...
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Post by Diet Kolos on Feb 20, 2020 20:30:00 GMT -5
As far as Tom Weaver is concerned, the man seems to have been carrying Susan's water for the past decade+, based on his past posts. He's a B-movie author and his job depends on being a sycophant and schmoozing with eccentric weirdos like Susan and Wade Williams. So while I don't doubt that the man spoke to her, I don't think that's a verbatim dialogue or the total truth. As far as Shout is concerned, they wouldn't have been negotiating with Susan for 6 months for "nothing". At the very, very least they're negotiating for the licensing for the documentary. But... In all likelihood, had the case gone to trial, 9+ times out of 10, a judge would've agreed with Shout on Fair Use grounds and Susan wouldn't have gotten 1 red cent. So Shout certainly doesn't need to negotiate a settlement for 6 months over something they would've won otherwise. And it doesn't take 6 months to workout how much back royalties Susan is owed and how much she'll get going forward on a documentary that's been released for 5 years and hasn't sold much. Someone on Reddit posited that before entering negotiations on WHATEVER they're negotiating, Shout probably insisted on NDA's, so Susan probably wouldn't be able to truthfully say to anyone, Tom Weaver or no, what the negotiations entail and what the results may be. So I'm writing Tom's post off as tongue-in-cheek bluffing. So unless something has drastically changed and Susan called the whole thing off (not impossible), there's too much smoke for there not to be a little bit of fire. Let's not forget the original Rumor that popped up before any one of us even noticed this case was ongoing and had reached a settlement.
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Post by jadenh on Feb 20, 2020 20:32:56 GMT -5
God damnit. I don't get why people are this stubborn. Like these movies are worth SO much that nobody else can have them. It really pisses me off. Well at the very least, the episodes on the upcoming DVD set are pretty much confirmed now. Fire Maidens of Outer Space The Deadly Bees The Space Children Quest of the Delta Knights And hey, this means that we'll finally have all of season 9 on DVD. So, that's something positive at least! As much as I would love for this to happen, I just have to accept the fact that the KTMAs will never be on DVD. But hey, I'm a pretty big fan of Deadly Bees. So, I don't mind this set of episodes.
EDIT: Whoops, I probably should have refreshed the page before I posted this lol. There's some hope for the Susan Hart films, but I'm still pretty skeptical.
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Post by jadenh on Feb 20, 2020 20:46:03 GMT -5
On a side note, I'm curious as to what this "sentimental attachment" that Wade Williams has for Rocketship X-M is. From what I've gathered, it just seems like he really likes this film for whatever reason. Well, he must have liked it because he even released a version with additional footage he filmed. I don't know what's so bad to him about MST3K getting a hold of it. In fact, I would wager that most MST3K fans have more sentimental attachment to the episode than Williams has for the film. Rocketship X-M is an extremely important episode, as it was the first episode to feature Frank and the first episode to feature Kevin as Servo. So, I don't know why he needs to be so protective over it. I can kinda understand Godzilla since it's mainly a cultural thing. Japan doesn't like people making fun of their films, which I guess is fine. Although to be honest, they're missing out on MST3K. Williams is a complete mystery to me.
Sorry for the long post. I'm pretty much just venting at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 21:40:27 GMT -5
On a side note, I'm curious as to what this "sentimental attachment" that Wade Williams has for Rocketship X-M is. From what I've gathered, it just seems like he really likes this film for whatever reason. Well, he must have liked it because he even released a version with additional footage he filmed. I don't know what's so bad to him about MST3K getting a hold of it. In fact, I would wager that most MST3K fans have more sentimental attachment to the episode than Williams has for the film. Rocketship X-M is an extremely important episode, as it was the first episode to feature Frank and the first episode to feature Kevin as Servo. So, I don't know why he needs to be so protective over it. I can kinda understand Godzilla since it's mainly a cultural thing. Japan doesn't like people making fun of their films, which I guess is fine. Although to be honest, they're missing out on MST3K. Williams is a complete mystery to me. Sorry for the long post. I'm pretty much just venting at this point. RXM was the first serious space travel movie of the 1950s (although Destination Moon was in production first). I think that's a large part of the appeal for Williams. As for Godzilla, I've long thought that those aren't held back so much because "Toho doesn't want them made fun of" but more that "Toho only wants them made fun of at the right price." Toho wasn't involved in the licensing of those films for the MST episodes in the first place, and as a lot of Godzilla fans can tell you, Toho likes to have complete control over what a licensor does with its properties. Toho might insist on certain changes to protect its brand but ultimately I think the issue is the licensing cost.
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Post by jadenh on Feb 20, 2020 21:58:16 GMT -5
Yeah, I guess the cost does make more sense. And the fact that Rhino didn't get the proper rights initially probably just put salt on the wound. Maybe we'll see the other Godzilla episode someday, but it ain't gonna be soon.
And I mean, I kinda get Rocketship-XM. To some people, it may be an important film. However, I feel like eventually Williams will have to let it go. But we'll see what happens.
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Post by jocksinclair on Feb 20, 2020 22:37:52 GMT -5
In fact, I would wager that most MST3K fans have more sentimental attachment to the episode than Williams has for the film. Rocketship X-M is an extremely important episode, as it was the first episode to feature Frank and the first episode to feature Kevin as Servo. A good thing about "Satellite Dishes" is that at least these elements of the episode are available on DVD.
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Post by jadenh on Feb 20, 2020 22:51:07 GMT -5
Yeah, that is true. We at least have the glory of fast food employee Frank on DVD.
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