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Post by Wild Rebel on Oct 17, 2006 11:27:49 GMT -5
Gila Monster Beast From Yucca Flats Ring of Terror Rocket Attack USA And I'll be happy. I'm getting ticked off that I keep seeing them being released by everybody else but not in Rhino sets. Of course you realize, there's one fatal flaw: There's no Sci-Fi episode in there. I mean, I don't think it's a flaw, but I just don't see that happening. I'd love to see Yucca Flats released, though. Some day they're going to run out of Sci-Fi episodes...and then what? They can start holding some back now.
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Post by Hugh Beaumont on Oct 17, 2006 12:19:32 GMT -5
Some day they're going to run out of Sci-Fi episodes...and then what? They can start holding some back now. Sounds good to me. And I was just thinking about Yucca's shorts, too.
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Post by Wild Rebel on Oct 17, 2006 12:29:54 GMT -5
And I was just thinking about Yucca's shorts, too. That sentence gives me the creeps... Seriously...they're constantly overlooked for Shorts collections even though they're funny as hell. And Beast so PD it's ridiculous. Everybody and their brother has released this thing on some cheap DVD "Horror" collection. Rhino kills me sometimes. And when you consider that they're now owned by Warners...and the way that the world is getting so that it's owned by all of three or four companies...how is it that they just never seem to own any of the cheesy movies in the show? It's always some highly complex agreement...and sometimes it had something wrong with it that makes them drop the title...
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Post by yarg on Oct 17, 2006 17:26:37 GMT -5
It's also worth noting that Rhino hasn't released any of the shorts that were produced by Castle Films such as Here Comes The Circus. If the owners (NBC-Universal, I think) won't let them use the shorts that would also keep The Day The Earth Froze from being released.
IMO I think what Rhino is doing, in so far as tracking down rights holders for some of these obscure films, is probably very hard and requires a lot of detective work. I think they should be praised for trying. Some of them like the Mole People are obviously owned by Universal and probably aren't going to be economical to release but others like Danger!! Death Ray or Warrior Of The Lost World... who even knows who owns something like that? Not the same people as in 1994 when it first aired. They probably track down the rights holder sometimes only to be told no.
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Post by Hugh Beaumont on Oct 17, 2006 17:51:15 GMT -5
And I was just thinking about Yucca's shorts, too. That sentence gives me the creeps... Seriously...they're constantly overlooked for Shorts collections even though they're funny as hell. And Beast so PD it's ridiculous. Everybody and their brother has released this thing on some cheap DVD "Horror" collection. Well, that's what I'm here for. I don't understand why anyone would refuse them access to the shorts like that. It's not like the shorts are an attempt at art or anything. One would have to be really anal to not want someone to make fun of an educational short like Money Talks. Yucca really does need to be released though. It was my recent intro to the Francis trilogy, and it's just so unfathomably bad. It makes Ed Wood look like Spielberg. Or a good director.
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Post by Captain Wrong on Oct 18, 2006 15:50:23 GMT -5
Sandy Frank does own the rights to the dubs he did of those shows featured on MST3K. One would still have to secure rights from Sandy Frank to release any of those episodes even if they owned the Gamera movies or the other shows. For that reason, the fact that you'd have to license both the movies and the dubs, I find it highly unlikely we'll see the Sandy Frank stuff come out ever. Stranger things have happened though... Sandy Frank only produced those dubs, he doesn't own them. Why would Sandy Frank not own the dubs that his company produced? Who owns them then? Hearst? Then why do all the Neptune tapes have licensing info (and opening logos) from Hearst? Did they transfer the rights over after Neptune released their tapes? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Post by angilasman on Oct 18, 2006 20:26:22 GMT -5
Sandy Frank only produced those dubs, he doesn't own them. Why would Sandy Frank not own the dubs that his company produced? Who owns them then? Hearst?
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Post by Captain Wrong on Oct 19, 2006 7:55:17 GMT -5
Are you sure about that? I really don't think Toho owns the AIP dubs of the Godzilla movies. They own the International versions they produced, but I haven't heard anything about them owning the American dubs.
If they do, that's a product of the deals they worked out with individual companies or they purchased them from them as that's not the way US copywrite law works. The rights from a derivative work (which a dub/re edit could be considered) wouldn't automatically transfer to the owners of the original work unless the person who produced the derivative work transfered them.
For instance, I'm pretty sure that's why the Mysterians has a new dub for English rather than the old one RKO produced. The rights to that didn't just automatically go to Toho after RKO lost the rights to the film. They still belong to whoever owns the RKO catalog (assuming proper copywrite renewals were made.)
I'd give as example two the two Toho King Kong movies which I don't have sitting here infront of me right now but I'm pretty sure Universal 100% owns the US versions of those films. If Toho wanted to release the US versions of those in Japan, they'd have to license them from Universal and vice versa.
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Post by travis on Oct 19, 2006 14:59:47 GMT -5
Why would Sandy Frank not own the dubs that his company produced? Who owns them then? Hearst? There is no reason to own a dub to a movie you yourself don't own. SF only dubbed GAMERA and GAMERA VS. ZIGRA (also possibly GUIRON), plus the TV show compilations. Apparently Neptune Media/Bill Ferguson licensed them from Hearst. Hearst no longer has the rights, and Kadakowa claims Neptune Media is the proper rights holders (Which is an awful situation). It's a big mess, and it's sad to see that no one is bothering to keep these movies from the PD. Are you sure about that? I really don't think Toho owns the AIP dubs of the Godzilla movies. They own the International versions they produced, but I haven't heard anything about them owning the American dubs. He was correct. When the rights to these movies expire, the US company has the choice of sending back the materials or destroying them. Toho owns any altered versions of their movies. AIP (then Orion and MGM) had no need to hold rights on the dubs they created once the rights reverted (and they chose not to renew). For instance, I'm pretty sure that's why the Mysterians has a new dub for English rather than the old one RKO produced. The rights to that didn't just automatically go to Toho after RKO lost the rights to the film. They still belong to whoever owns the RKO catalog (assuming proper copywrite renewals were made.) Warner apparently owns the RKO dub version of The Mysterians, but they have no materials. Also, they may only have theatrical rights. Media Blasters created a new dub because Toho didn't have any English materials to provide them with. [I'd give as example two the two Toho King Kong movies which I don't have sitting here infront of me right now but I'm pretty sure Universal 100% owns the US versions of those films. If Toho wanted to release the US versions of those in Japan, they'd have to license them from Universal and vice versa. That's a very different case, where John Beck/Universal bought the US rights (and some other international rights I think) permanantly. Universal doesn't have any Japanese version materials, so they'd have to renegotiate the rights with Toho (hence why they only released the US versions on DVD). While the Gamera films are a bit of a gray area (because of Neptune Media), the rest of the SF imported movies MIGHTY JACK, TIME OF THE APES, FUGITIVE ALIEN, and STARFORCE: FUGITIVE ALIEN 2 Rhino could license from Tsuburaya Productions (who own those TV shows, plus are the rightful owners of Ultraman).
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Post by travis on Oct 19, 2006 15:02:08 GMT -5
I hope Giant Gila Monster is on this set, It's PD. It's definitely going to be on a set eventually. I love that episode too. I wonder if maybe one of the shorts in that episode is the issue with Beast of Yucca Flats. I have that one on tape but for some reason it has an annoying line of static through it. I very highly doubt it. Most of the shorts were PD, or were very cheaply licensed (notice on Vol. 10).
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Post by Captain Wrong on Oct 19, 2006 15:45:19 GMT -5
He was correct. When the rights to these movies expire, the US company has the choice of sending back the materials or destroying them. Toho owns any altered versions of their movies. AIP (then Orion and MGM) had no need to hold rights on the dubs they created once the rights reverted (and they chose not to renew). Ok, in the instance where someone is using an international dub that Toho has created, you are correct. However, we're talking about someone in the US creating their own dub and version of something here. The rights to the film upon which that derivative work was created may have gone back to the owner (Toho in our example) but the rights to that derivative work still remain with whoever created it, unless they sold those rights to another party or let that work enter the public domain. That doesn't mean the third party can still put out their movie without negotiating with the original version's owner, but likewise the original version's owner can't release the derivative version without some negotiation that way too. See, that's exactly the situation I'm talking about. Warner doesn't have the rights to the movie anymore but they still have ownership of the dub which RKO created because they own RKO now. Sorry for taking this thread way off topic. I'm still not convinced that Sandy Frank doesn't own the rights to the dubs he released. Unless those are international dubs that he got with the movies or unless they were bought (or given) when the rights to the movies reverted to their owners, I don't understand why he wouldn't own the rights to a derivative work his outfit created.
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Post by angilasman on Oct 19, 2006 18:53:03 GMT -5
^You see, besides from the special circumstances surrounding Universal's and very few other's contracts, the Japanese companies seem to have the rights to the US versions altered by US companies (and Universal is a huge powerful company, Sandy Frank not-so-much).
When the US rights holders rights run out then they can either send the Japanese company their versions or destroy them. Either way, if you want to use them (even if the US company destoryed their original materials) you have to go to Japan. Unfortunetely several original US versions of Godzilla movies have seemed to dissappear, but it seems Toho probably owns the rights to these versions, it's just that there are little concerns; like the fact that the US versions of Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster and Son of Godzilla went straight-to-TV, so they'll be pan and scan. Toho has one copy of AIP's Godzilla vs. The Smog Monster, but its old and beat up, and Destroy All Monsters... well, I don't really know. I think the original US materials were destoryed. I believe Quentin Terantino owns a copy of one of the theatrical prints. All of these problems plus the fact that these US versions have different editing and missing scenes, meaning that for a DVD they'd have to include both cuts, and many companies would rather just use the international dubb and the Japanese audio on seperate audio tracks over the original cut of the film.
Lets look at Classic Media's situation with their new Godzilla DVDs (they've listened to the fan base and have really gone out of their way to preserve the original US cuts). They already had the releasing rights to the US versions of Godzilla King of the Monsters! (owned by Toho despite its basically a US film), Godzilla vs. The Thing, Monster Zero, Godzilla's Revenge, and Terror of Mechagodzilla. They went to Toho to get the rights to the Japanese cuts for all of these films, then CM got the rights to Godzilla Raids Again and Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster from Toho. Toho gave them both their original Japanese cuts as well as the US cuts (done by Warner Bros. and The Walter Reade Organization).
Furthur more, Toho seems to own the US versions of their Godzilla movies even when the US holders still have the original rights! Two years after Godzilla King of the Monsters was released in the US Toho released the American version of their blockbuster in Japanese theaters, with Japanese subbtitles (funny story, this fullscreen movie was cropped to "cinemascope" format, which had become the norm in the four years that had passed, so quite often both Raymond Burr's and Godzilla's heads would be chopped off!). Toho liked Tristar's cut of Godzilla 2000 so much that they immediatly substitued it for their International version when showing the film in various other countries.
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Post by travis on Oct 26, 2006 18:54:37 GMT -5
They went to Toho to get the rights to the Japanese cuts for all of these films, then CM got the rights to Godzilla Raids Again and Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster from Toho. Toho gave them both their original Japanese cuts as well as the US cuts (done by Warner Bros. and The Walter Reade Organization). Toho did not provide CM with any English materials. CM had access to some US materials through buying Goldenbooks Entertainment (whom had those two movies before). GHIDRAH is actually going to be a composite of the Japanese version with some of the English version's credits. GIGANTIS THE FIRE MONSTER (that is, the US version of GODZILLA RAIDS AGAIN) was done by Paul Schreibman. Warner Brothers only distributed it (and that was only for 10 years or so). Walter Reade Stearling had nothing to do with it. Walter Reade Stearling did do the US version of GHIDRAH though. So anyhoo, Toho only has materials to some of the American versions. Which is a pity, because it means several great dubs have fallen through the cracks. In the meantime, Rhino should try with Kadakowa and Tsuburaya Productions about acquiring some of those SF imported goodies.
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Post by hsauertieg on Nov 3, 2006 11:53:04 GMT -5
These Japanese companies seem to hold anything a US company does to their films as merely and addition to the movies that they own. When the US companies rights expire, it all goes back to the Japanese guys. As much as we may not like it, the Japanese companies are probably correct in their view. Although Raymond Burr is good in the American GODZILLA, nobody pays to see him. They pay to see Godzilla and monster mayhem.
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Post by samtaco on Nov 5, 2006 23:42:58 GMT -5
All I want on this set is 110- Robot Holocaust 403- City Limits 604- Zombie Nightmare 904- Werewolf and I can die happy
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