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Post by Zombiejesus on Oct 24, 2008 18:01:50 GMT -5
If CT and ICWXP can turn a profit riffing on cheese then RT could do it from time to time without losing their shirts. Or has it become all about the bling-bling? RT's gone heartless corporate, maybe.
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Post by conoratrifftrax on Oct 24, 2008 18:24:12 GMT -5
If CT and ICWXP can turn a profit riffing on cheese Well, that is making an assumption. RT could do it from time to time Please feel free to check out our latest riff of one of the cheesiest movies of the decade, The Happening, or our latest short from the 50s, "Good Eating Habits". www.rifftrax.com/rifftrax/happeningwww.rifftrax.com/ondemand/good-health-practicesWe've been working on finally getting our first Shorts Compilation DVD out as well. This post that Bill wrote a while back does a good job of addressing this type of complaint: forum.rifftrax.com/index.php/topic,8730.15.html Some good quotes if you don't want to click: "But we do have to keep this operation running, and at present the bigger titles -- and the NEWER titles -- sell way, way better than anything more obscure. This is true about certain movie genres, too. And I don't mean a small difference, but 80% less revenue."
"If anyone thinks that we're buying villas in Mallorca while laughing at you poor dumb rubes having to endure another recent Hollywood release, though, you're quite wrong."
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Post by conoratrifftrax on Oct 24, 2008 18:31:20 GMT -5
I don’t understand why they aren’t doing a Filmcrew type thing riffing on fun, cheesy movies and releasing them on DVD plus digital download ala CT. To be fair, this is kind of like asking why we don't bake and sell cookies. It's just not what RiffTrax was created to do.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 24, 2008 19:02:33 GMT -5
Edit: sorry part of my reply disappeared
Conner, thanks for posting that. Bill's right, you can't make everyone happy?
Are commentaries for the Legend releases a dead deal, non issue? Were they not make money either? I think some of us see some of their DVDs and wonder (myself included) why not add a riff style commentary track like Mike use to do?
But again, I don't know the profit side of it. I'm suprised to read that there is such a fall in sales in type of movie they select. 80%, wow.
But I'll keep buying, and a new short? YES!
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Post by conoratrifftrax on Oct 25, 2008 17:28:51 GMT -5
Edit: sorry part of my reply disappeared Conner, thanks for posting that. Bill's right, you can't make everyone happy? Are commentaries for the Legend releases a dead deal, non issue? Were they not make money either? I think some of us see some of their DVDs and wonder (myself included) why not add a riff style commentary track like Mike use to do? But again, I don't know the profit side of it. I'm suprised to read that there is such a fall in sales in type of movie they select. 80%, wow. But I'll keep buying, and a new short? YES! I think that there will be some commentaries on DVDs in the future. Since DVDs take a much longer time from inception to when you get it in your hands than a standard MP3 release, they're sort of a tough thing to manage while keeping a steady release schedule, but I think there will be some eventually. A DVD of shorts will be first I think. But yeah, it's unfortunate that all the people who watch Transformers riffed aren't also willing to bite on a "Glitter" or "Next" or "Missile to the Moon". It's sort of dissonant with what you see posted a lot online, people wishing we'd do A) more old movies and B) worse movies. However, a lot more people that don't post evidently don't feel that way. It's too bad that we can't make everyone happy but if we tried, it would probably be like the Poochie episode of The Simpsons: Network focus group guy: So you want a realistic down-to-earth show that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots? Anyways, thanks for listening, and check out the new short.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Oct 25, 2008 21:12:40 GMT -5
Thank you Conor for taking the time to address my concerns. I understand that RiffTrax is a business and businesses need money to keep things going. My concerns are purely on a more...how should I say this..."artistic" level.
Having spent the last decade a fan of his work, Michael J. Nelson is a man I admire for his sharp wit. I don't want to accuse him of putting forth lackluster efforts, because I'm certain he (and his friends at the fine folks of RiffTrax) are giving these releases all they have, especially since you pump out more or less 2 (on average) of these a month and that must be exhausting.
However, films like Iron Man and Indiana Jones are just a bit too tongue-in-cheek for this sort of thing. Something like Star Wars or Cloverfield (or other films, such as the works of Michael Bay or Roland Emmerich) work because there's a feeling of pretentious self importance that you get from those films. I recall the controversy when Raiders was released, and I was interested to see how the boys would do. Ultimatly, I thought the pre-release critique of the film choice was justified in that the movie just didn't seem to be gellin' with the RiffTrax. It's so many of these in a row that's getting my panties in a bunch: Crystal Skull, Iron Man, Pirates of the Carribean (a film I have nothing but contempt for, but don't see it faring any better). Haven't been subjected to the Happening yet for personal reasons (well, kinda...I swore off that hack M Night a long time ago), though if it's a return to what made RiffTrax so appealing to me in the first place, I may have to check it out.
There's something a little poetic about how RiffTrax is mocking Hollywood, and yet I'm criticizing RiffTrax for the same reason people criticize Hollywood nowadays. Today, movies are made for cash, and artistic vision takes a back seat. There's a bit of a mirror there, in which RiffTrax is choosing movies based mostly upon whether or not they'll sell their Trax instead of whether it'll be right for it.
Maybe it's just that Cinematic Titanic is stealling my heart away from you guys, but I still refuse to give up on my fav trio of Mike, Kevin, and Bill. I'm just voicing my concerns about what lies ahead. What a single internet message board poster has to say is probably not important, though. I'm happy that RiffTrax is keeping the MST spirit alive.
Thank you for your time.
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Post by Broadsword on Oct 26, 2008 9:11:24 GMT -5
Great Post Torgo, I feel the same way. I really wish that the guys had developed The Film Guys more as a side project along with Rifftrax. A couple of DVDs a year from them would have been fun.
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Post by conoratrifftrax on Oct 26, 2008 13:00:42 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to articulate how you feel. Like Bill said a few months ago, we can't make everyone happy, but I can at least share some thoughts back with you Films like Iron Man and Indiana Jones are just a bit too tongue-in-cheek for this sort of thing. Something like Star Wars or Cloverfield (or other films, such as the works of Michael Bay or Roland Emmerich) work because there's a feeling of pretentious self importance that you get from those films. I recall the controversy when Raiders was released, and I was interested to see how the boys would do. Ultimatly, I thought the pre-release critique of the film choice was justified in that the movie just didn't seem to be gellin' with the RiffTrax. Raiders has been one of our most popular Trax. I don't think you'll ever find a "consensus" opinion about our work, just because so many people are not posting their thoughts. But if you check out our forum, virtually all the votes for it are 7/10 and above: forum.rifftrax.com/index.php/topic,5468.0/viewResults.html In my opinion, riffing a movie that all of us here admire and enjoy can be just as much if not more fun than riffing something like The Island of Dr. Moreau. Riffing isn't about just pointing out how bad something is, there are many levels to the commentary than just that. I can't say enough how much I encourage people to check out The Happening. It's exactly what people seem to want from a riffed movie. I'd also say that three movies doesn't necessarily constitute a trend. I think before pirates the last movie we did was Memento, a film that takes itself incredibly seriously. As Bill said before, if you think we're jetting off to Monaco to lie on the beach in between Trax, it's a mistaken impression. But keep in mind that whenever we "sell" a RiffTrax, there is someone else out there "buying" it. It's just as easy to say that more people want to watch a RiffTrax of a movie like 300, Raiders, the Matrix, Jurassic Park or Transformers, than want to watch one of Next, Missile to the Moon, Glitter, Crossroads or Over the Top. These might not be people who are articulating their thoughts on forums, but the fact that they are out there is clear to us every day. Every time we release a new RiffTrax, is as if we're conducting a poll that says "do you want us to do more movies like this" and four times as many people say 'Yes' for last summers big blockbuster. I feel like these numbers would be closer to evening out if we were distributing the movies packaged with the riffing, but unfortunately, the more effort it requires to get the movie we've riffed, the less likely it is people are going to watch it. Again, just some stuff to keep in mind. Like I said earlier, we probably will release some dvds in the future, and these will be of older movies. Hopefully we'll continue to be able to do something that will entertain everybody at least every couple of releases. We appreciate all the support.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Oct 26, 2008 13:37:10 GMT -5
Most of what you say is very true. I fully realize that RiffTrax isn't a get rich sort of thing, and you boys have jobs to do, and if you don't get paid for it, then you have a problem.
However, when I watched Raiders many months ago, I felt that the film and the RiffTrax were at war for my attention span. I hate to say it, but RiffTrax lost that battle (with the exception of Bill's brilliant line of "I DON'T CARE WHO SHOT FIRST!" That was classic). Is it because I love the movie? I think it's more along the lines of both the movie and the RiffTrax were made to do the same thing: delight. They just didn't form into a whole for me. Great movies can make for great Trax, however, because Spider-Man is one of my all-time favorite films, and the RiffTrax is probably in my top three. It can be argued that the film didn't take itself all that seriously either, but I think it took itself just seriously enough to make the experiences of film and RiffTrax sort of embrace. I'm also one of the few people in the world who loves the film Daredevil, yet the ruthlessness of that RiffTrax made me howl like a madman.
But, as we all know, comedy is subjective. There are people on this board who consider Pod People one of the best episodes of MST and Hamlet one of the worst. I have low esteem for Pod People, and I enjoy Hamlet quite a bit. I saw a church billboard the other day that said "The key to failure is trying to please everybody," which, as you've said, is true to an extent. You just please who you can.
As a listener of RiffTrax, I still retain hope for the future. It's just when Iron Man and Indy were announced, I just didn't feel any excitement or anticipation. I look very much forward to the day where the film's I've been anticipating since day one get their shot, including the afore mentioned Friday the 13th or pretty much any of it's sequels (I think Freddy vs. Jason would have "fun fest" written all over it).
The news of possible DVD releases genuinely excites me. I hope you boys make it that far, because it would be a pleasure to see what you cook up. Good luck.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 29, 2008 5:38:21 GMT -5
No rifftrax player offered on this one BTW - Which is a bummer for me, I've enjoyed these much more since I started using the player (Plus I take my laptop to work and watch it there, it's helps pass the slow bits of the night)
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Post by conoratrifftrax on Oct 30, 2008 19:31:01 GMT -5
No rifftrax player offered on this one BTW - Which is a bummer for me, I've enjoyed these much more since I started using the player (Plus I take my laptop to work and watch it there, it's helps pass the slow bits of the night) Took us a little extra time, but it is now available and has been added to your account if you already bought it! Enjoy!
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Post by Mr. Atari on Oct 30, 2008 20:16:52 GMT -5
I have a different take than Torgo/Generic.
I've been a fan of MST3K since 1990, and I've always been more of a Joel & Trace guy. But right from the beginning, Rifftrax has been fun. Probably my favorite aspect of Rifftrax versus the alternatives it is that I can share the joys of movie riffing with friends, not to mention my wife, who otherwise wouldn't have any interest because the movies are so god-awful. There's no way in a thousand lifetimes I could get my wife to watch "Monster A-Go-Go" with me. But she loves the LOTR movies, LOST, and the Indiana Jones movies. So when I dial up the Rifftrax for those, we have a great time together. This wouldn't happen with only crappy movies providing the fodder for riffing. (Of course, I also love "Missile to the Moon", "Troll 2", "Glitter", and the like).
As much as I hate the comparison between Rifftrax and CT, I'm going to use it as an example. I recently watched the last two CT efforts and thought that even though they're funny, they sounded too scripted and the films were just too repulsive. Then last night, I finally got around to the Rifftaxed Iron Man. It was a completely different experience. It was lighter, looser, and (to me) funnier than the recent CT efforts. Why? I don't know exactly. But I think the fact that they used a more enjoyable film had a lot to do with it.
I'm still going to support and greatly enjoy anything and everything CT and Rifftrax put out. But I, for one, am very happy that Mike & Co. continue to riff on popular, and even good, movies. It's an experience and an angle of riffing that you can't find in the other incarnations.
And Conor- thanks for your input into all of this and for helping us understand the business side of it all.
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Post by braindeadzombie on Nov 1, 2008 11:59:37 GMT -5
"But we do have to keep this operation running, and at present the bigger titles -- and the NEWER titles -- sell way, way better than anything more obscure. This is true about certain movie genres, too. And I don't mean a small difference, but 80% less revenue."
The "Flavor of the moment" Rifftrax offered at the same time its megaselling movie is released on DVD sell a lot more than those that aren't. Color me surprised, which I imagine would be greenish color.
Rifftrax has gone from doing the movies you want to doing the movies that you know will sell. I can extrapolate further; It also gone from "you" singular to "you" plural. Also, Writers go uncredited on each Rifftrax sold and that's a strange phenomenon for artist self-enterprises. I am surprised that credits weren't added to the text files with each download. Or where they? I haven't downloaded one since September.
I don't know what's more depressing: The idea of the Rifftrax {or Nelson, Murphy and Corbett at least} sellout or the fact that the sellout was for so little.
There. That was more of a contribution than just "Why are Rifftrax so disposable?" On the other hand, it's also the answer to it.
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Post by Captain Hygiene on Nov 1, 2008 12:17:17 GMT -5
I find it pretty hard to fault people for moving towards what makes money. I really don't think that riffing only on older films is some type of lofty, artistic goal that is compromised by shifting primarily to newer films; given what Conor's said about the sale rate, it only makes sense. Realistically, they're in this as a business - riffing films is not some type of artistic endeavor ruined by greed, it's just a job that they're particularly good at.
It may not be what we'd all most want them to do, but I don't really think we should be tearing into them for not turning down a better source of income.
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Post by RexDart on Nov 1, 2008 13:07:10 GMT -5
i havent watched a rifftrax since Cloverfield and that wasnt too funny. They are so predictable now, its kinda sad. I knew they would do Iron Man. Where's Red Dawn? Now its all about the money. Its now not about if the movie deserves it, but if its new and will it sell. Was much more fun at the start, when it wasnt about the money and it was about the crappy movies.
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