|
|
Post by slwatson on Mar 17, 2006 17:08:19 GMT -5
Now that I'm out of the hospital and quite well on the mend, I figured I'd introduce a topic for chatter. Mind you, given that this is me, this will likely be taking the plot concept too seriously.
Where do you (meaning whoever reads this) find your characterizations for the characters? I mean, we all have a certain 'take' on the charries -- where they came from, or how they grew up, or what kind of people they are offscreen. Where does everyone get their characterizations from? Canon? Real life people who remind them of the characters? The actors?
And the further soapbox topic would be...
What are the MST3K characters like in your mind -- not just what we see on screen, but how do you think they were before the show, or after, or even during the offscreen moments? Your version of their history, quirks, etc. Feel free to be as deep or shallow as you want while answering that.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cleolanta on Mar 17, 2006 19:07:43 GMT -5
Hey, glad to hear you turned out okay! Didja know, the other MST fanfic writers wanted to put something together to make you feel better, or something...and I volunteered to help, but they never got back to me. I would've sent you a get-well card or something, if I could...
Anyway. To answer your question...
Well, with me it's mostly canon. Filled in with things that sound logical based off of what we know from the canon. In the case of characters who seem to have at least a few things in common with myself--such as Joel--I can fill in maybe a few cracks with things about myself that don't seem too out of bounds for him. Although I don't do that very much. But that is one reason why characters that already remind me of myself are a smidge easier to write. :P
As for what I see them doing in their offscreen moments and stuff...wow. That would take forever to answer, if I tried to do it for EVERY major character.
For during-the-show's-time-period-but-offscreen...In my story I have them just randomly listening to music and playing board games around the SoL, and getting bored to death, 'cos there's nowhere else to go and nobody else to look at, etc. Kind of the same atmosphere as on Red Dwarf (which reminds me of some parts of MST's premise, actually.) If you've ever seen an episode of that where Lister is just not _into_ playing a board game and is going batty with boredom and depression, that's a bit what life is like on the SOL.
...sometimes. Of course, with those 'bots being the way they are, it's not going to _stay_ dull for long... :P
As for what they did before and after the show...whoo. That's the one that would take forever to answer. Those are fanfics in and of themselves. Lemme get back to you on that later.
...Notorious
|
|
|
|
Post by Afgncaap5 on Mar 18, 2006 17:14:11 GMT -5
I'd say that I start with the canon (you pretty much have to, otherwise it's not a fanfic.) How closely I adhere to canon and how much "new stuff" I add depends on what type of story I write.
If I'm writing a comedy, Gypsy is probably just going to be in charge of maintenance and making the type of offhanded "FYI" style of jokes that she does in the series. If I'm writing something seriously then Gypsy'll have a more apparent technical know-how when she fixes/operates things on the ship.
|
|
|
|
Post by slwatson on Mar 18, 2006 18:06:42 GMT -5
Canon is definitely the gold standard; everything I write has to fit somewhere in there, and properly. I don't remember if I ever willfully disregarded MST3K canon for anything, though I don't believe I did so, and the only time I ever consider disregarding *any* canon is when it contradicts itself, in which case I go with whatever version makes more sense.
As to before/during/after characterization... I could devote hours of my time on those. ::grins:: Which proves yet again that I don't have a life.
The hardest one for me to write is Clay. He has always and will always be more of my sister's character than my own, so I can't really offer much in the way of insight into him that's actually mine. In more serious stories, where I actually have to look at his backstory and make sense of it, I think that there's more to him than meets the eye. But again, I can't confidently say I write him easily, though I absolutely adore him.
The easiest one is Mike (and is ANYONE surprised by this? Anyone at all? Yeah, didn't think so). Joel is a little tougher -- the boys share some common elements, like a firmly Midwestern kind of way of looking at some things, but Joel has a 'prodigy/genius' element to him that makes him something else entirely. In canon, he has moments that are so out there -- so does Mike, but for Mike, I can understand why. Joel baffles me sometimes, up to and including those moments where he's almost 'dark', though admittedly I haven't explored any of that.
Usually when I write for Joel, I again use my sister's take on him -- only child, latchkey kid, had friends growing up and played pickup games of football in an open field, but also spent a crazy amount of time alone tinkering with things. His parents were gone early on (young adulthood, after he was out of high school), and he's never found a real career that suited him -- that would just be too confining, and I couldn't see him ever sitting in an office or even in a lab building for someone else.
He has the unique ability to create life out of random parts, and that makes him something almost unfathomable. In my own writing, even Joel's not quite sure how it works, but he doesn't question it, either -- it's just a part of him, as natural as breathing. He's not as earth-bound as Mike is; he appreciates good weather and things, but not to the same level. Joel's main drive in life just seems to be to live it and let it happen however it happens, good or bad; don't make assumptions, don't judge, just live and try to be happy.
Soultaker was an episode that threw me off; it was almost impossible for me to reconcile Joel as I knew him with the Joel who came back, but that's another discussion for another time.
Mike, I get. Easily. The whole 'farmboy' thing was based on a column from the Sci-Fi era and it fits. His lamenting in 'Santa Claus' about missing the change of seasons is very much in line with how I see him -- an absolutely normal guy, who grew up pretty close to the ground, left home to make a career and ended up not quite getting there. Mechanically inept, but well-read and somewhat more inclined to the arts of music and literature -- him being a fan of poetry is another thing that doesn't shock me in the least. Smarter than people give him credit for, but naive -- he'd have to be, to let the 'bots trick him so many times. But he's definitely not an intellectual midget, either... he's just Mike.
Very Midwestern (how great is that?), very earth-bound, a simple dreamer without any huge plans in life except to maybe someday get a stable, decent paying job, a house, a wife and two kids. Someday. He's definitely in no hurry to do the settling down thing, though, just figures that it's somewhere on the horizon. He has the same sort of 'drifter' mentality Joel seems to, but to a lesser degree -- you never get the impression that Joel wants to land anywhere to stay, but you can get that Mike does someday and eventually will.
Like I said, I can spend hours on it. Most of my characterization starts in canon, but definitely doesn't end there. Pieces of it come from living, and from knowing other people's lives -- Ohio is still the Midwest, though here we're bordering New England. But I've had the pleasure of knowing farmers, and drifters, and hard working blokes who go to work and come home -- have known storytellers, joke tellers, and everything else. A lot of what I write draws first on canon, second on experiences, and finally (and maybe even most importantly) on empathy.
They change quite a bit over time; Joel seems to get more apathetic (and my God, Soultaker he was downright... uncool, man), Mike goes from being kind of your typical Midwestern male to being far more unstable. I could give point by point ideas as to why (without looking for the actor's explanations), but again, I'll leave that for later.
Yes, I love the show Red Dwarf -- I have every episode and have watched some of them so many times I have entire eps memorized. That in itself is a masterpiece on characterization done well... at least, until the 7th and 8th seasons, which are not, in my book, RD at all.
And thanks for the kind thoughts during my medical issues. I'm happy to report, that's all finally over, done and never coming back.
Okay, annnnyway... so, what do you think, sirs?
|
|
|
|
Post by wedestroymyths on Mar 18, 2006 21:15:46 GMT -5
slwatson,
that description of Joel, at least the bit about his ability to bring life out of parts reminds me of a stunning and wonderful piece of short (actually its a bit long) fiction called "August Eschenburg" by Steven Millhauser. It appears in his lovely collection of short fiction In the Penny Arcade
not really relevant to Fan Fic at all, but when I thought about it, it seemed that Joel fans might really appreciate the story as it deals with the spirit of invention among other odd and labyrnthine themes.
|
|
|
|
Post by jjb3k on Mar 20, 2006 10:47:14 GMT -5
Canon works best for me, too. After watching the show for so long, I find that I can easily immerse myself in the personalities of the characters. For instance, when I write for Joel, I know he has to be easy-going and creative while acting as a sort of parental figure for the 'bots, while Mike has to be edgier and intelligent, though still somewhat dimwitted to an extent. The 'bots are a toss-up because their personalities evolved so much, but I prefer to focus on the SciFi era Servo (irreverent but snippy), the mid-to-late Comedy Central Crow (clever, but not as bitter as he became later), and the post-Season 3 Gypsy (capable of coherent thought). Dr. F and Frank offer me a bit of a challenge, because I try to capture the very essence of the chemistry that Trace Beaulieu and Frank Conniff had together onscreen - sort of a Laurel-and-Hardy kind of thing without being too obvious a ripoff. Pearl, Bobo, and Observer are a little flatter, so it's easier to pin them down.
All this will become evident as I continue "MST3K: Generations" - I'll have to adapt myself for writing the characters as they appeared in various eras of the show.
|
|
|
|
Post by slwatson on Mar 22, 2006 17:13:37 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to seeing how you do that one, jjb. All of them changed quite a bit between the seasons, and it's kind of facinating to think about the cause-and-effect.
So here's another question -- *why* do you think the characters changed over time? What factors lead to their evolutions? What were key moments in canon... and speculative moments in the offscreen time?
|
|
|
|
Post by jjb3k on Mar 22, 2006 22:46:24 GMT -5
Well, in some cases it's easy, as you can chalk it up to a change in actor. Josh Weinstein's voice lent itself to a more sarcastic delivery as Servo, while Kevin Murphy turned him more jovial and boisterous. And Trace Beaulieu's voice for Crow seemed to be made for a smart-alecky character, while Bill Corbett's New England tones lent themselves to a more harsh delivery.
In other cases, it was just natural development. Dr. Forrester was originally more of an equal with Dr. Erhardt, but Frank became his subordinate and turned him into a more dominant and sadistic figure. Then once Pearl showed up, her vicious personality managed to achieve dominance over Dr. F, turning him into the Frank-like figure. And Gypsy was originally really dimwitted early on (barely even able to speak full sentences in the KTMA years), but I guess they decided it'd be funnier if she was more of a logical voice of reason on the ship, so they changed her to become just as smart as the guys, if not smarter.
Joel's personality, I guess, came from his casual nature and his ability to roll with the punches - hence why he never really displayed any qualms with being stranded in space. Any apathy he gained later on can probably be credited to his waning enthusiasm in working on the show seeping into his performance. Mike's rapport with the Mads is much different than Joel's because, obviously, Joel knew the Mads for a longer period of time beforehand, whereas to Mike, they were almost total strangers who shot him into space totally unprepared. His lack of stability later on is probably due to this as well - remember, even Joel succumbed to Space Madness for a brief period (albeit for just one host segment in 213). Joel made the bots, so it's only natural that he act like their father, but Mike was the "new kid", so it's only natural that the bots tease him more.
Observer and Bobo evolved rapidly, much moreso than the other characters, and you can chalk that up to being paired up with Pearl. Pearl's grouchy aggressiveness is evidently enough to turn sophisticated apes and omnipotent aliens into sniveling idiots.
|
|
|
|
Post by elireburg on Aug 4, 2006 8:47:34 GMT -5
I tend to use what I have seen as an example for how the characters should act, but I also seem to imagine them being more emotional, in my mind. Like, there is more drama for them to deal with, but so much that it would overpower the humor or MST3K.
|
|
|
|
Post by Blue Lightning on Aug 7, 2006 18:41:09 GMT -5
Wow. After having read some very, very, very bad fanfics in the past, I kind of developed a prejudice against fanfics. But you guys (and gals) have posted some very insightful stuff. You guys seem to "get" the characters, and not just use them as stand-ins because of a lack of creativity that prevents you from creating charecters of your own. (The latter being something that made the bad fanfics so very, very bad.) Kudos to all of you.
|
|
