|
Post by Mod City on Jul 22, 2018 23:12:48 GMT -5
To give you a peek at how desperate I was during this period, Sci-Fi Channel used to air what they called a "Mighty Marvel Marathon" where they aired the old Marvel TV movies from the 70's. I taped every single one of them and watched them REPEATEDLY. It's not exactly moving to a new place, but my dad recently sold my childhood home, so I had the fun experience of cleaning out all my old stuff from my room, attic, basement and everywhere else I had things. Lousy time, but I managed to save everything I could. Among the many items was a beater copy of Web of Spider-Man #55 (Oct. 1989) stashed with a bunch of random items. Just happen to be reading it the other day. I like reading the old Bullpen Bulletins section in these old comics. The one in this issue was particularly interesting after spending some time in this thread recently (I typeset this myself from the page, so forgive any typos): I honestly don't know that much about this particular age of Marvel movies/TV. The Captain America movie he refers to is probably the one from 1990 or so? I know they did a Fantastic Four movie around that time, too, but Stan doesn't seem to mention it. And Daredevil as a TV series! Took awhile but they did get there eventually I love his enthusiasm, especially now knowing the results were pretty lackluster, but then another decade later things started to change. I'm sure it's probably archived somewhere, but I wish I had that Marvel Age issue with the Stan's Soapbox column with more details on the Cap movie.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Jul 22, 2018 23:47:37 GMT -5
Lol, I have a bunch of digital Spidey comics. Reading those bulletins was a hoot. The super hyping of the 70's shows, the worshiping of Schwarzenegger's Conan the Barbarian, and always promising a Spidey movie but never delivering.
And yes, the Cap movie that Stan's referring to was released direct to video in 1991 (though it played theatrically in Europe). It was produced by Menahem Golan of Canon Films fame and it's most notable cast members were Robocop's Ronny Cox as the President of the United States and Superman's Ned "Otis" Beatty as his childhood friend. And get this: it was directed by Albert Pyun, who directed MST's Alien from LA.
It's also probably the worst film out of every movie based on a Marvel comic. And yes I've seen the unreleased Fantastic Four (which is actually better than a few Marvel films I could name).
Fun fact: MGM owns the movie, but Shout Factory licensed it for blu-ray. I've been championing it for MST season 12 for a while.
The Daredevil TV series I would have been interested in. It was going to be spun off from Trial of the Incredible Hulk, which was my favorite of the Hulk TV movies and would have featured John Rhys Davies as the Kingpin. The DD costume was kinda silly, and it no doubt would have been weaker than the show we have now, but I have am affection for retro genre television and it would have been welcome among the airwaves around the same time as the 90's Flash and Lois & Clark.
Those Hulk movies almost spun off a Thor series as well. I don't think it would have been that good, but I would have watched that too.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Sept 2, 2018 19:51:28 GMT -5
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Sept 4, 2018 3:15:21 GMT -5
I'm one of those weirdos who thinks bad cinema is just as interesting as good so you'll often find me watching all different kinds of movies just for the hell of it. With bad films I've often find myself watching out of interest to find some hint of why good ideas might go bad. Some bad films I watch fairly often because I find them to be interesting case studies. Plus in the back of my mind I sometimes have that nugget of an idea "that movie couldn't have been as bad as I remember, could it?"
I don't think I've ever talked in length about the 2015 Fantastic Four film, but this is one of those movies I've found myself watching once a year to remind myself of what a trainwreck it is. Tonight was my 2018 viewing. And it is a trainwreck, there's no doubt about that. But at the same time before the film was released there were so many people offended by the idea of its existence that people watched the movie determined to hate it anyway. The fact that the movie actually turned out to be one of the worst superhero movies ever made just made these people insufferable. You can usually root them out as the people who refer to it as "Fant4stic," which is just one of those mock titles people spout out just to be jackasses for the sake of being jackasses. I don't converse with these people on the film. There really isn't a point.
Everybody who has collected comic books will have probably collected a one-shot miniseries at some point, many of which take an established character(s) and create some sort of twist on the basic idea of them to spice things up, such as The Dark Knight Returns, Old Man Logan, Gotham by Gaslight, The Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe, ect. Fantastic Four is like the cinematic equivalent of someone creating a somber sci-fi one-shot out of Marvel's First Family, and you pick up the first issue intrigued. That first issue isn't very good but you're interested in seeing where the story is going so you pick up issue two. That issue is balls, but you've invested this much money so you might as well see how it ends so in the back of your mind you think you'll probably pick up issue three. You might or you might not have, but if you did chances are it was a clusterf*ck piece of ass.
Fantastic Four is a skeleton. There are interesting ideas here, but nothing is nourished. I have no idea what went wrong during production as there are rumors that a LOT went wrong during production. It's possible the script was rushed to meet a contractual release date in order to keep the rights to the characters, it's possible that Fox drastically altered it just before pre-production to meet budgetary concerns, it's possible Fox edited the living hell out of it to get it to 100 minutes, and it's also possible that Josh Trank is a hack that sabotaged his movie with his own incompetence. It could be any or all of those things, though we are aware that a great deal was finished in reshoots, presumably without Trank's involvement (rumored to be helmed by X-Men: Dark Phoenix director Simon Kinberg). It's easy to tell that a lot of the third act was reshot, thank's to Kate Mara's infamous wig. We can definitely say that the entire "skybeam" big battle fight scene was a reshoot, making me wonder just how bad the original climax was if this was the improvement that they came up with.
There are little things that I like. I like the cast (I'd even say Kate Mara is a far better Sue than Jessica Alba was), even if they all look way too old to be playing high-schoolers. The script is so anemic that they can't flesh out their characters, but that's not their fault. I like that they're horrified by their powers at first, but these scenes go nowhere. I like that they need special costumes to control their powers, but this is underdeveloped as well. There's so much time devoted to them coming up with the reason that they get their powers that the rest of this hits the backburner. I feel there was an attempt here to make a superhero origin movie that was more focused on being a beginning than offering up a whiz-bang climax with a supervillain. "Doctor Doom" (who is Doctor Doom in the very loose sense that he's Victor von Doom) is introduced finally with about fifteen minutes left in the film, and he explodes some heads, makes his "skybeam," and gets punched in the face. He's terribly inconsistent and underdeveloped.
I don't know. There's all these things that could have made a good movie being sucked down by what feels like apathy from behind the scenes. Say what you will about the Tim Story Fantastic Four movies but the people who made them had fun with them, and the family comedy vibe they went for reflected the familial spirit of the comics. At times I wonder if F4 2015 would be better if it didn't have the history of the characters weighing it down and they just used original concepts. Maybe a little, but if it were still going to be as restructured as it is then it also wouldn't have been very good. Instead this comes off as an even worse rights grab that the Roger Corman film, because at least this one had money pumped into it and was released. I'd actually say that Roger Corman film had better film structure too.
Though if I were to digress into discussing that Roger Corman version, I do hope now that Shout Factory owns New Horizon's catalog means that they might have a master for that film, though I am unclear as to who currently owns it. Avi Arad claims that he bought the rights for Marvel to ensure it was never released, though how much of that was him brushing the film off to get people to shut up is uncertain to me. I still dream of a blu-ray release of this film. It's a bad movie but it's a fun bad movie. And it's a better Fantastic Four movie than 2015. Though to be fair Josh Trank's Fantastic Four isn't the worst Marvel movie either. I'd personally say I easily dislike the first Ghost Rider and the 90's Captain America more. It's probably in the bottom five though.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Sept 4, 2018 15:22:11 GMT -5
So yeah. I'm a 34 year old in a Captain America T-shirt that went to the dollar theater and said "One for Teen Titans GO! to the Movies, please." I sat in there the only person in the theater watching a movie based on a Cartoon Network show aimed at 8 year olds that comic purists live to bitch about because it's not made for them. I sat in there waiting for the end credit scenes while the janitors looked at me funny too.
You'd think I should rethink my life choices but I don't give a damn what you think.
So yeah, I saw this thing today. I'll admit I'm not to knowledgeable about the Teen Titans. I know Robin of course, because Batman is my jam. I know that Cyborg sucks and Martian Manhunter and/or Green Lantern should have been in the Justice League movie instead (though Ray Fisher did a good job in pushing me into liking a character I don't care about). And I know the new Titans streaming show looks like ass. The others I know mostly by information I get on the fly. I know Starfire is an alien and she screws Robin on occasion. I know Raven is a mystical spawn of the devil (or something). I know Beast Boy is green and loud.
You'd think I'd know more about them because they had their own popular TV show in 2003 but...yeah, I was watching Justice League Unlimited at the time and I saw a few episodes of Teen Titans and was like "Pffft...this isn't Justice League." I think I wasn't getting into the style because it wasn't the same as the types of TV shows that I personally grew up with, and it was a bit more anime fused for the Pokemon generation. I've been meaning to give the show another crack but...been busy. Plus superhero genres on the big screen and small have been prolific enough. Going through a back catalog of cartoons I haven't seen is way too daunting right now. I'll get to it, just like I eventually got to Young Justice.
So forgive me if I have little to no opinion on Teen Titans GO!, this comedic series that took Teen Titan's place and have never seen either. It seems fine for what it is, and I have no real affection for the original Titans show so I can't see it as a desecration. If I were to say anything about it it's that while I don't mind the childish comedic takes on the other characters, for some reason it doesn't quite work for me with Raven. She's too emo a character for this to really take hold onto her.
So this is my first big exposure to this Teen Titans GO! thing and...I liked it? Here's the thing, the big problem I have with this movie is the same problem I have with the Aqua Teen Hunger Force movie: It's joke every line style is designed for twelve minute segments. Ballooning it into an eighty minute movie makes it very exhausting. By the time it ended I did feel a sense of "FINALLY!," though I admit it's not the first overlong superhero movie I've felt that at this year ( ::cough::Deadpool::cough::Ant-Man::cough:: ). The satire of a superhero dominated Hollywood and turning it into a supervillain plot is actually fairly clever, if I'm being honest. It's just that the film has a tendency to gag-tangent for about ten minutes at a time before it remembers what it's about.
But there are some pretty funny gags her, even for comic book fans that have hit puberty. Some of the better ones were in the trailer ("There was a Green Lantern movie! But...we don't talk about that..." still makes me laugh), but there are a few surprisingly great ones saved for the movie, including a surprising CAMEO from someone you wouldn't expect in a DC movie ( ::wink::wink::nudge::nudge:: ). A lot of the humor skews juvenile, and while some can be funny they do tend to go overboard at times. There's definitely an overdone scene involving a fake toilet about halfway through that I was very much going "Oh jeez, I paid money for this movie" while sitting through.
I guess I recommend it. Question mark? There are a lot of critics who seem charmed by this movie, but I think it's more because it's different than any other superhero movie they watched this year. It's not going to be for everybody, and if you don't like fart jokes you might want to stay home. If you hate Teen Titans GO! then you'd probably be better off missing it as well. Superhero nuts who have an open mind might have a good time. I myself might say I enjoyed this movie more consistently than I did The Lego Batman Movie last year, though that might just be me.
|
|
|
Post by Mod City on Sept 6, 2018 13:46:25 GMT -5
I didn't think the new Fantastic Four movie was as bad as everyone said it was, but then again, everyone else really, really, really hated that movie. It wasn't good, hell no, but I was expecting so much worse. What got to me is that the damn thing never really got going. It kept feeling like something was about to happen, and then...nothing happen. Next thing you knew, the movie was over. Disappointing, to say the least.
I think my other big problem - I hate the Fantastic Four. It's probably my least favorite classic comic book title that everyone seems to adore. Reed Richards as a genius is pretty interesting, and the other members have their points, but they are so incredibly overrated it's annoying. Honestly, the X-Men C-team would crush these guys. The whole "family-angle" also gets old with me real fast. Guardians of the Galaxy was pushing that idea almost past what I could handle in Vol. 2, as well. Enough with the "we love each other we're family even if we're different YAY!"
Anyway, if/when the MCU takes it back over I'll give it another chance. I'm still not expecting much, though.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Sept 6, 2018 16:28:40 GMT -5
The thing is if someone were to ask me "Hey, do you like the Fantastic Four?" I'd respond "Sure, I love the Fantastic Four." Then if they'd ask me "Who's your favorite of the four?" I'd respond "Um...uh...well...sh*t. Can I say Herbie the Robot?" The Fantastic Four are fabulous as a unit, but they're boring as individuals. I'd pick up a F4 comic to see the family dynamic, but if you were to ask me to read a Thing or Human Torch solo I wouldn't be interested. Hell, even those old Marvel Team-Ups with Torch and Spider-Man, while they have their moments, Johnny Storm is just kind of an asshat without the others to reel him in. It always feels to me that separate they are not characters. The character is the unit. They need to be together, that way they're relatable, they're funny, they're the bickering family, and they're just fun.
Forgiving the fact that the 2015 film wasn't interested in any of this (truth be told that movie is a failure for different reasons), I always felt a potential Fantastic Four movie would be best to play up the family dynamic and interaction. The 2005 movie isn't great but it does play with it, it just turned it into a cheesy sitcom while doing so. I remember seeing that film and seeing Serenity a few months later, which was my first real exposure to Joss Whedon...except Alien 4, but never speak of that movie to me) and watching the family unit, the quarrels and dynamics between characters. I thought to myself "Boy, this guy should have made the Fantastic Four movie."
Fast forward seven years and Whedon makes The Avengers. I have issues with that film as an Avengers movie, though I will say in many ways it's my ideal F4 movie.
We live in a world where that family dynamic defines The Incredibles and Guardians of the Galaxy. Making a good Fantastic Four movie like that in theory shouldn't be that difficult. But there's this stigma that lighter characters aren't interesting, which is how you get 2015 Fantastic Four and Man of Steel. But the secret to maintaining the heart of the character is what makes people charmed by them. That's what they did with Iron Man, Deadpool, Wonder Woman, and Black Panther and look what happened to them.
|
|
|
Post by Mod City on Sept 6, 2018 16:56:10 GMT -5
Therein probably lies my problem. The family dynamic wrapped in a comic book story is a combination that just doesn't do it for me. I'm trying to think of a really good combination in that realm (comics or their movie counterparts) that I like, and it's hard to come up with something off the top of my head.
Your Joss Whedon point is excellent. Firefly and Serenity both delivered on that family dynamic without being cloying, and I would like to see what he would have done with a Fantastic Four movie. By the end of Serenity I was actually a little misty-eyed. He managed to do it to an extent with the original Avengers, as well. At least well enough that I wasn't distracted by the way he was doing it.
The way it was handled on the second Guardians movie did distract me - there was the one trailer with Nebula stating "all you do is yell at each other, you're not friends," to which we hear Drax reply, "no, we're family!" and I could feel my stomach turn. Build it, don't force it. Again, to be clear, I liked both Guardians movies. I just didn't think that part (and it's a big part of both flicks, but more so the second) was handled that well.
I also agree on the 2005 version. I really didn't mind it, though it is pretty weird going back and seeing Chris Evans as Johnny Storm, and the Thing doesn't look too hot, either.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Sept 6, 2018 22:29:42 GMT -5
I do agree with you on Guardians. I love James Gunn's writing, but when he tries to be sentimental he can be very on the nose. I remember the moment most people said made them cry in the theater during the first movie was "We are Groot." When I was in the theater the line hit my head before they said it and I just kept repeating to myself "Don't say it don't say it don't say...oh gag, they said it." Then there is the moment at the end of Guardians 2 in which Yondu swoops in and saves Starlord and says something like "He may have been your father but he aint your daddy." The editor in my head just asked why that line was necessary. Starlord's reaction when Yondu sacrifices himself directly afterward could have spoke for itself, and then make his line at Yondu's funeral of "I had a cool dad" be his coming to terms with Yondu being his father figure. Compare these to a moment in Avengers: Infinity War where Groot turns to ash and just says to Rocket "I am Groot." James Gunn's translation of the line on Twitter was "Dad?", which is devastating. But Groot didn't need to have a "We are Groot" moment to get that across. The scene even without the translation is just as affective.
What I mean to say is I like James Gunn better when he's making rape jokes. (Oh this is going to bite me on the ass later isn't it?)
A lot of family relationships in media often feel the need to underline themselves by saying "family" a lot. Just look at the Fast & Furious franchise. Half the dialogue is "Grumble grumble grumble family," and the other half alternates between "Grumble grumble grumble Corona" and "Grumble grumble grumble American muscle." But these movies aren't really about family, they just kind of pretend to be as an excuse for car chases. I would probably cite the defining example of betrayal to this theme was when they accepted former antagonist Jason Statham into the "family" at the end of the eighth film and they all have a laugh. I couldn't help but laugh with them and go "HAHAHAHAHA he murdered our friend Han in cold blood! What a guy!"
I don't think family units need to be constantly labeled as a family onscreen for these themes to work. The Ninja Turtles for example are brothers, and while some stories try to reinforce the word "brother" (normally when they're aimed at younger children, like the TMNT animated movie) for the most part all we need is the interaction. They act like brothers and they treat each other like brothers, therefor they're brothers. Even the 2005 Fantastic Four movie never really needed to spell out they were a family, they just were. And it works. I buy it.
But mini-digression over. Family might not be your cup of tea, Mod, though I like the dynamic between units like this personally. But I love playful banter, so that might be the root of it. Though I do equally adore teams like the X-Men, where everyone is fairly layered and can hold a story on their own, and while they work together and respect each other they don't necessarily like each other, ect. There are various different kinds of teams that work in different dynamics and I like to see them all.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Sept 11, 2018 18:19:58 GMT -5
Those like me who grew up loving superhero stuff before the Spider-Man 2002 superhero movie boom always had one Kevin Smith on our side, who helped legitimize our culture on the big screen back when...well, superhero movies weren't that great. 1997 brought Batman & Robin, Steel, and Spawn, but it also brought Chasing Amy, a non-traditional romance set in the backdrop of the comic book industry with many, many nerdy references. He was the director of many films close to my heart, such as Clerks, Mallrats, Dogma, Clerks II, Zack and Miri Make a Porno...hell, I'll be the one to say it, I love Jersey Girl. Come @ me, bro.
As superflicks boomed he kind of faded a bit, trying to take his career in new directions like director for hire in Cop Out, horror auteur in Red State and Tusk, and whatever the hell Yoga Hosers is supposed to be, most of which are more...interesting movies than they are great. But he kept the nerd culture flowing through some podcast work in the meantime.
And I just finished with the final episode of our Nerd guru's flagship pop culture podcast Fatman on Batman. Technically it's not ending, it's just being rebranded as Fatman Beyond, but it's still a little sad to see something you love taking its final bow, even if it isn't really changing all that much. The reasoning behind the change is that Smith has lost a lot of weight since his heart attack, losing the "Fatman" aspect, and the show has long since evolved since him and guests bullpoopieting about Batman. Now it's him and Castle Rock writer Marc Bernardin discussing whatever the latest comic book movie news is, also some other movie stuff as well, and doing a Q&A in front of an audience, so it has evolved into something different so titling it something different makes sense.
Still if you love the nerdy stuff, and you tolerate Smith, pay your respects mofos.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Sept 12, 2018 9:26:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Mod City on Sept 12, 2018 12:00:07 GMT -5
I like Cavill in the role, too, even if I'm not the biggest fan of the DC flicks. It's crazy how easy Marvel makes this whole movie process look and how difficult DC makes it look.
|
|
|
Post by Mod City on Sept 17, 2018 22:19:00 GMT -5
Watched Deadpool 2 recently. It figures. I go off on how I don't like the come-together-as-a-family theme in comic book movies and I watch this and end up liking that angle. I don't know, maybe it's the irreverent take that disarms me on it, but by the end I was kinda feeling it. Good comedy, good action, decent drama. What more can you say? Deadpool is one of the most creative creatures any studio has put up on the comic screen, and Ryan Reynolds, the writers and the directors have nailed it so far. I can't think of anyone else capable of playing Deadpool like this. I love the fourth wall breaking stuff. They keep it restrained for the most part, but it's almost always funny when they do use it. And I loved, loved, loved Domino. They did a great job of having fun with her abilities, and Zazie Beetz gives her such a cool personality. Literally happy-go-lucky. She nails some of the simplest lines. "Lucky me!" "You're doing great!" "This is gonna be fun!" And she brings it in the action beats. She steals most of the scenes she's in. Another thing I really like was the music. Using stuff like 9 to 5, Tomorrow and a strikingly moving Take on Me is just fantastic. The choices are unexpected and enhance either the comedy or the drama. And they're just darn good tunes. They did a bit of this in the first one but I thought this movie did it better. Great bonus credit scene!
I gave Guardians of the Galaxy a hard time for being a bit too schmaltzy at times for my taste. I think there's still truth to that. I probably need to rethink that some. But when they surprise you with earnestness instead of wringing it out of a majority of the scenes - and it has a that genuine quality - it has a greater impact. For me, anyway.
Side note - I bought New Mutants #98 (first Deadpool appearance) off the rack at the airport on a trip with my parents back in the day. This book took off as the first Deadpool movie came out and high-graded copies command some big bucks these days. Of course, I had to get it home, so I rolled it up/stuffed it in my carry on bag. It's not as bad as it sounds, but yeah I still have it, though, and I can say I bought it off the rack.
|
|
|
Post by Mod City on Sept 19, 2018 13:59:31 GMT -5
The first trailer for Captain Marvel came out yesterday. I have to say, I'm excited for this one. I get kind of a Man of Steel vibe meets Captain America: The First Avenger from this. That's a good thing, in my opinion.
One thing I'm really hoping for is that the music in the trailer is in the movie. That sound is epic.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Sept 19, 2018 14:39:40 GMT -5
I really really love that they established it was the 90's by showing a Blockbuster Video. That's just insanely good establishment marketing.
The rest of the trailer is awesome too.
|
|