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Post by JLH on Oct 25, 2023 14:22:36 GMT -5
Unless you're going whole hog and using a film print plus tweaking the BBI footage so that's HD, it's barely an enhancement. All they do is run an episode through Topaz and call it a day. The fact they're tacking on that expense like it's some "bonus" is pretty silly.
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Post by Troy's Dad on Oct 25, 2023 15:30:01 GMT -5
Is it possible that altering the original episode means contractually they need to pay a license fee again or some nonsense?
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Post by BoB3K on Oct 25, 2023 15:59:54 GMT -5
Is it possible that altering the original episode means contractually they need to pay a license fee again or some nonsense? I can't imagine. They're not using any of the assets in a different way, they're just cleaning up an existing copy, kind of like when they remaster an Indian Jones or something. And I'm sure they're all eps that they already have rights to sell and stream already.
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Post by starschwar on Oct 25, 2023 16:27:30 GMT -5
I just wanted to mention that Matt McGinnis has been an essential part to MST3K since meeting Joel in 2012 and is pretty much second to Joel. His name appears in the credits to every episode and he has been one of the key people in every funding campaign. So it's a bit flippant to say "who is this guy" and fumble his name when anybody following MST3K since the revival should be aware of who he is. Given how obsessive some can be with MST3K minutia, I just found it kind of lazy and rude to react to Matt like that. That's all. I am not as familiar with the new staff, my question was legitimately from a place of ignorance. Thank you for information.
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Post by starschwar on Oct 25, 2023 16:30:46 GMT -5
Properly remastering old MST3K episodes is a big undertaking and unlikely to ever happen. Even if they got HD prints, they'd have to synchronize the audio, retain all edits, replicate all the bad splices, etc - and recomposite the silhouettes to match the pan and scan of the original, otherwise sight gags would be broken. Anything specific to obscure versions like TV edits or retitled versions would be difficult to retain. And all the host segments were shot on tape, there is no increasing the resolution of that through anything but artificial means (AI, etc). I think it's a huge waste of time/money. Just let stuff that was recorded and edited on/for SD stay SD. If they had shot on film (Star Trek TNG is a great example), an argument could be made - but they did not.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Oct 25, 2023 17:04:15 GMT -5
From the new update, where Joel answers some questions:
You thought the subscription-based service we explicitly pitched as being the future business model for new content going forward was the the future business model for new content going forward because we didn't say otherwise? Sorry about the confusion there! Gosh, not sure how that happened. What an oversight on our part.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Oct 25, 2023 17:08:43 GMT -5
Also:
So that's nice. Would like to know if its a real set or just the flat "wall" set from Season 11/12. But still.
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Post by starschwar on Oct 25, 2023 17:41:36 GMT -5
I'll take a flat wall over frosted dome Servo every time. So that's at least one piece of good news.
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Post by BoB3K on Oct 25, 2023 18:16:42 GMT -5
I see they're using the strike as the excuse reason to not give any details about the returning cast / hosts.
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Post by kracker on Oct 25, 2023 18:58:34 GMT -5
I see they're using the strike as the excuse reason to not give any details about the returning cast / hosts. It's not an excuse. I know you don't understand how strikes work but actors can't discuss contracts, obligations, pay, anything related to their jobs until the strike is resolved nor they can participate in the fundraiser at all, unless SAG actually grants them an exception. The cast will likely return but Joel can't make confirmations because the actors can't make confirmations. I love how we are all into Joel not making promises when things aren't guaranteed, set in stone... until we aren't
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Post by kracker on Oct 25, 2023 19:33:55 GMT -5
From the new update, where Joel answers some questions: You thought the subscription-based service we explicitly pitched as being the future business model for new content going forward was the the future business model for new content going forward because we didn't say otherwise? Sorry about the confusion there! Gosh, not sure how that happened. What an oversight on our part. To be fair, you can't make guarantees on how business models are going to work out, especially not in the situation they were in at the time. And as you just said Kolos, it was a pitch, not some kind of iron clad promise. They made a swing for the fences, and unfortunately it didn't really work out. And as Joel stated, the obligation was to make Season 13 and the Gizmoplex along with content because the budget guarantees that but the budget can't guarantee how the market will behave afterwards. Also what they are doing now isn't far off from what they would be doing through the Gizmoplex, selling the next Season Pass, plus Blu-ray sets and some merch through their site themselves. But they are doing it fundraiser style and so far people haven't been asking the right questions about that.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Oct 25, 2023 20:04:31 GMT -5
If people aren't asking the right questions, its not the people's fault. Its Joel & Co's fault for not spelling it out explicitly the first (second, I guess) time around. Or just saying something about it on Day 1 in that video, or on their campaign page. This was apparently a pretty common misconception, judging by how often I'm seeing it brought up on Reddit, Youtube, Facebook, etc. And by the fact that it had to be answered. A LOT of people backed the 2nd KS under that incorrect assumption, it seems. And...one would think its affecting their willingness to jump in again so quickly. Yes, the idea that "This 2nd Kickstarter will be the LAST campaign because they can raise all the money they need thru the Gizmoplex, which we're funding now." wasn't technically correct, but you can't blame people for thinking so. And it would've probably behooved the team to explicitly state that wasn't the likely outcome and that future fundraisers would probably be needed. Joel even says the new member money and Season Passes "would’ve been a fraction of what we needed to fund even a single episode" so...why didn't they say that...BACK THEN? Because it would've undermined the sales pitch. Again, this isn't my hill to die on. I called them needing another campaign back when the GPlex KS was happening. Basic math showed how that the GPlex wouldn't be self-sustaining, even back before it existed. I recall PAGES of arguments about that. No, THIS wasn't the reason I'm not contributing again. I'm a quality quibbler, as we all know. I just understand the frustration. If I had bought into the Gizmoplex concept, and were under that false impression that future giant fundraisers wouldn't be necessary, I'd feel a bit burned, too. Edit: After a cursory look, here's a pertinent Reddit thread.
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Post by monkeypretzel on Oct 25, 2023 20:24:16 GMT -5
They absolutely said that they were HOPING the Gizmoplex would be self supporting in 2021. I found it in Update 15, 5/3/21:
"Q: Will Gizmoplex membership fund future episodes of MST3K?
Great question! As we reach the end of the first year, we want to see how the Gizmoplex is working out, whether you find it valuable, and whether it's able to generate enough revenue to support making more new episodes of MST3K.
The honest answer is, we don't know yet, but we hope this might become a sustainable alternative, so that we wouldn't need to do a new crowdfunding campaign for each future season, and could just keep making episodes for as long as we have enough members."
From later in the same update:
"Part of our goal in launching the Gizmoplex is to make sure we can distribute our own episodes from now and bring in some ongoing revenue to support more new episodes, instead of depending on another Kickstarter for each new season."
There was no "...if we suggested," Joel. You did suggest. You did more than suggest. You (or Ivan or Lesley, whoever wrote that) went so far as to state plainly that one of the goals in launching the Gizmoplex was bringing in revenue to support the production of new episodes, INSTEAD OF doing crowdfunding.
I will say that it was never a promise (unlike the watch party function that never happened), but it was strongly implied that giving money to the last Kickstarter to get the Gizmoplex built would mean a revenue stream that would eliminate the need to crowdfund each season. Were all the fans who believed that and commented then and now about it just having a mass delusion?
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Post by kracker on Oct 25, 2023 20:40:57 GMT -5
so...why didn't they say that...BACK THEN? Because, i dunno, try.. there's NO way of knowing?? Once again, like you said, its a pitch. Season 13 and the Gizmoplex wasn't a "pitch", it was actually part of the deal. Going beyond is outside the scope, not to mention control. Sort of how when you crowdfund a movie and part of it is the hopes that the movie will fund a sequel, but they don't and everyone blames them for not explicitly saying they won't get a sequel since a sequel was somehow an iron clad part of the deal. I'm not blaming people for thinking so, you're blaming Joel for somehow duping everyone into thinking so, when he very much should have been able to tell the future with the ol' magic crystal ball and tell us there will absolutely be another fundraiser. Because that's very smart business 9_9 Yes, you called the idea of them doing another fundraiser, but y'all also predicted it would be another Kickstarter, not to mention y'all predicting the last Kickstarter would be a laughable failure. you're all just throwing dice here.
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Post by kracker on Oct 25, 2023 20:46:52 GMT -5
Yeah you guys really need to understand words like "HOPING" and "we don't know yet", "pitch", "goal". They never said or even suggested the Gizmoplex was definitely going to be the business model from now on. People hoped and speculated that with enough support, it could. It was a goal outside the scope of the fundraiser. Goals cant always be met. It staunchly depended on the amount of support after the fundraise, which is pretty obvious to everyone.
Also once again, this isn't far off from the business model you say everyone expected, i just paid for a Season Pass and Blu-ray through the MST3K.com site as opposed to paying for a Season Pass and Blu-ray through the Gizmoplex, for less than the price that you guys predicted i would be paying, might i add.
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