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Post by starschwar on Nov 27, 2023 17:29:23 GMT -5
Maybe they were going to do a pledge drive on Shout Factory's website also to help raise money but it just launched way way too late? Maybe this is their plan to help have other partners give them money. Shout Factory just passively raises money for a few months and then they use that as a supplement to even more fundraising? but they couldn't be bothered to tell anyone? hmm. Mods on the main forum are saying 'don't touch it' and are trying to get confirmation.. problem is they are in such denial about lesley and ivan not working with mst3k anymore and that is who they emailed about it. smh. This is like the recent incident where the official forum claimed the "official MST3K tik tok" was fraudulent, despite having exclusive footage of Joel and being linked to by the Youtube stream of the telethon.
The left hand does not know what the right is doing at present.
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 27, 2023 17:29:35 GMT -5
I didn't see it at first because of my adblocker. If this is the strategy for season 14, I think they're better off trying another fundraiser. it's got to be a scam.
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 27, 2023 17:30:29 GMT -5
but they couldn't be bothered to tell anyone? hmm. Mods on the main forum are saying 'don't touch it' and are trying to get confirmation.. problem is they are in such denial about lesley and ivan not working with mst3k anymore and that is who they emailed about it. smh. This is like the recent incident where the official forum claimed the "official MST3K tik tok" was fraudulent, despite having exclusive footage of Joel and being linked to by the Youtube stream of the telethon.
The left hand does not know what the right is doing at present.
yeah that was pretty dumb. But this seems different.
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Post by missionpanic on Nov 27, 2023 18:03:52 GMT -5
This leads to a link where you give them money for nothing. It's being run through Publir, which is a "holistic revenue engine" publir.comThis had better be a scam. If Shout is doing this then they are as low as possible.
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Post by dc41 on Nov 27, 2023 18:05:14 GMT -5
Maybe they were going to do a pledge drive on Shout Factory's website also to help raise money but it just launched way way too late? Maybe this is their plan to help have other partners give them money. Shout Factory just passively raises money for a few months and then they use that as a supplement to even more fundraising? That banner had been on Shout Factory’s store page too most of last week. Assumed it was connected to the campaign. It was there this morning, assumed it just hadn’t been turned off. About the backer awards - a great point about the limited physical awards this time and yet a much larger ask financially without said awards. The kickstarter covered those costs too (but no shipping 😀) so again, what did they need all the money for? Agree completely about the financial situation- but what exactly was the plan as/after season 13 ended? That was nine months ago! You set up your own streaming app - great - but you can’t leave it devoid of new content that long (a month is pushing it) and I doubt they would have had anything new to add before June (at the earliest).
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Post by dc41 on Nov 27, 2023 18:26:27 GMT -5
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Post by monkeypretzel on Nov 27, 2023 19:18:01 GMT -5
I've read a LOT of comments in the past few days, so maybe I've missed it...
But is anyone who is pro-NuMST and happy with how things have been produced and run over the past few years talking about how to get the fans who have walked away from supporting the show BACK?
The points I see them making over and over is that the fundraiser was at the wrong time and didn't get enough promotion, and that's why the numbers were down, and of course the focus in discussion is on fixing those issues. Less popular but still discussed is the cost issue. But anyone who doesn't like the new is being dismissed with a "we don't need them, they're just bad people" attitude. That's gotten even worse in the past 24 hours since some idiot on former Twitter made a tweet about NuMST being "woke" (because Emily) and now everyone who doesn't care for Season 13 for whatever reason is being lumped together as right wing misogynists who aren't worth having as fans.
But the numbers don't lie, and 18,419 is nowhere near enough to support a season of MST3K unless there's someone else to pay the biggest part of the tab and keep paying it. 18,419 also isn't a number that any advertisers are going to take seriously. They need more people to back, and more people to watch. So how does Joel and company get the people who just don't like Season 13 or any of the new shows to give another new season a chance, and more importantly, donate toward making it?
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Post by Jenni_S25 on Nov 27, 2023 19:34:26 GMT -5
The thing I don't understand is the disconnect between what Joel said in many many interviews, that he was done if the fans didn't want to fund it kind of gloom, and then there's the peppy "we're not giving up" can-do attitude from the end of the campaign. I think whoever wrote the final update was trying to keep the loyal die-hard "on the hook," as it were. There’s that one statement there, " may have opened up some new conversations about potential partnerships and fundraising," emphasis mine, that the official forum has seized upon as some sort of not-over-yet thing and calls to do it all again in "a couple of months" (!) with a better plan, and such. That "may have," though, reads an awful lot like the "really hope the Gizmoplex makes us self-sufficient" stuff they had the last time. Oh, it may, but what are the odds? They have to keep the hope alive, or they’d really be doomed.
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Post by Jenni_S25 on Nov 27, 2023 19:39:06 GMT -5
That’s a very good article! That’s the same writer that did the ranking of all episodes for Paste, too, isn’t it?
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Post by monkeypretzel on Nov 27, 2023 19:43:53 GMT -5
What a fantastic article. I don't think it will be easy to dismiss the points Vorel raises as being from a hater, considering he's long been one of the most vocal fans of the reboot to be found in the media. He even brings up the "sustainability" argument, pointing out that yeah, it sure did sound like they said that: "All of this could likely have been forgiven by the show’s fanbase, however, if there was some indication that The Gizmoplex had been able to directly fund more episodes of the series. Indeed, comments from the 2021 Kickstarter campaign certainly made it sound as if this was one of the goals of the Gizmoplex, though Hodgson and crew have subsequently stressed that this was never the platform’s intention. Still, look at this Q&A question from 2021: Q: Why are you spending so much to build the Gizmoplex? Just spend everything on new episodes and put them on YouTube! A: Part of our goal in launching the Gizmoplex is to make sure we can distribute our own episodes from now and bring in some ongoing revenue to support more new episodes, instead of depending on another Kickstarter for each new season. And that’s the heart of the matter. It only takes a quick glance around the MST3K fan pages to see that supporters very much liked the idea of not being dependent on “another Kickstarter for each new season,” a hope that the season 14 crowdfunding campaign launch seemed to shoot down, with a disheartening effect. Given this, is it any surprise that enthusiasm for each subsequent crowdfunding campaign would inevitably start to bleed away? This was a model that simply wasn’t sustainable. Or put another way: If this WAS a sustainable way to make television, then wouldn’t you expect the creators of your favorite series to conduct yearly crowdfunding campaigns themselves in order to produce a completely independent product? At the end of the day, asking supporters to continue committing to a product, a year or more before they can even access the product, was a stress that not even the goodwill of a show legendarily built on goodwill could bear."
I certainly hope Joel and whoever is left with him - and Shout Studios - read this. Whether they listen or not I guess we'll find out, eventually.
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Post by ds_36 on Nov 27, 2023 19:56:22 GMT -5
There’s that one statement there, " may have opened up some new conversations about potential partnerships and fundraising," emphasis mine, that the official forum has seized upon as some sort of not-over-yet thing and calls to do it all again in "a couple of months" (!) with a better plan, and such. I think the biggest impediment to any sort of partnership/outside funding is Joel himself. He would have to relinquish some control of the show and have a boss again. He seems to have demonstrated that that is something he very much does not want to do. Assuming they haven't actually gotten in debt the question becomes is he willing to pass on at least some control.
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Post by Megalon on Nov 27, 2023 19:58:42 GMT -5
I've read a LOT of comments in the past few days, so maybe I've missed it... But is anyone who is pro-NuMST and happy with how things have been produced and run over the past few years talking about how to get the fans who have walked away from supporting the show BACK? Not that I've seen, and in all likelihood they never will. It's part of the purity spiral; as a fandom shrinks, the true believers take over. And true believers have the utmost antipathy for apostates more than anyone else -- even more than they do for non-believers. At least non-believers can still be converted -- after all, their non-belief might be due to ignorance -- but apostates have had the gall of tasting the fruits of righteousness and being unmoved. And for that, we can never be forgiven.
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Post by dc41 on Nov 27, 2023 21:18:21 GMT -5
What a fantastic article. I don't think it will be easy to dismiss the points Vorel raises as being from a hater, considering he's long been one of the most vocal fans of the reboot to be found in the media. He even brings up the "sustainability" argument, pointing out that yeah, it sure did sound like they said that: "All of this could likely have been forgiven by the show’s fanbase, however, if there was some indication that The Gizmoplex had been able to directly fund more episodes of the series. Indeed, comments from the 2021 Kickstarter campaign certainly made it sound as if this was one of the goals of the Gizmoplex, though Hodgson and crew have subsequently stressed that this was never the platform’s intention. Still, look at this Q&A question from 2021: Q: Why are you spending so much to build the Gizmoplex? Just spend everything on new episodes and put them on YouTube! A: Part of our goal in launching the Gizmoplex is to make sure we can distribute our own episodes from now and bring in some ongoing revenue to support more new episodes, instead of depending on another Kickstarter for each new season. And that’s the heart of the matter. It only takes a quick glance around the MST3K fan pages to see that supporters very much liked the idea of not being dependent on “another Kickstarter for each new season,” a hope that the season 14 crowdfunding campaign launch seemed to shoot down, with a disheartening effect. Given this, is it any surprise that enthusiasm for each subsequent crowdfunding campaign would inevitably start to bleed away? This was a model that simply wasn’t sustainable. Or put another way: If this WAS a sustainable way to make television, then wouldn’t you expect the creators of your favorite series to conduct yearly crowdfunding campaigns themselves in order to produce a completely independent product? At the end of the day, asking supporters to continue committing to a product, a year or more before they can even access the product, was a stress that not even the goodwill of a show legendarily built on goodwill could bear."
I certainly hope Joel and whoever is left with him - and Shout Studios - read this. Whether they listen or not I guess we'll find out, eventually. I would very much hope Jim’s article gets some attention from Joel and the gang. It’s legitimate feedback at what is a crossroads for the show’s future. I do think Joel recognizes this is his creative legacy and I don’t think he wants to leave it in this state. And yes, there’s a growing issue in genre fandom of absoluteism where it’s either you love it unconditionally or you’re a hater (apparently no one listened to Obi-Wan) with no room in between. It’s a fairly recent phenomenon culturally. There’s more empathy for creators today than before (some of which I think informs the lighter touch some of the films have gotten in the recent seasons) due to people feeling closer to the creators involved (thanks to greater engagement) and these shows create a sense of identity and belonging for a lot of people as well. Art is obviously subjective and for something like MST3K, which is designed for mass consumption, to thrive it needs to have and be open to healthy discussion, including criticism; even sports with objective outcomes still invites debate (that’s part of the fun!). Just imagine if this inverse gatekeeping existed for the KTMA eps or season one - the show would never have improved, which it objectively did.
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Post by starschwar on Nov 27, 2023 21:23:13 GMT -5
The official Youtube channel uploaded a clip from an Emily episode that has a riff that's either chosen to be perfectly ironic, or it was just tone-deaf coincidence. It's at 3:43 in case my link doesn't start at the right spot.
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Post by missionpanic on Nov 27, 2023 21:34:51 GMT -5
I've read a LOT of comments in the past few days, so maybe I've missed it... But is anyone who is pro-NuMST and happy with how things have been produced and run over the past few years talking about how to get the fans who have walked away from supporting the show BACK? Not that I've seen, and in all likelihood they never will. It's part of the purity spiral; as a fandom shrinks, the true believers take over. And true believers have the utmost antipathy for apostates more than anyone else -- even more than they do for non-believers. At least non-believers can still be converted -- after all, their non-belief might be due to ignorance -- but apostates have had the gall of tasting the fruits of righteousness and being unmoved. And for that, we can never be forgiven. I mean, there's people on the subreddit today acting smug towards any discussion about the funding/future - and they don't have a show anymore! It's like they'd rather be "right" then have new episodes of MST3K. I won't be donating despite seeing some positives after an unfortunate Facebook experience, although I'll buy them if they get produced. It's like walking on eggshells for anyone, I can't imagine a new fan asking a newbie question without getting jumped on.
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