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Post by Megalon on Nov 27, 2023 14:46:56 GMT -5
Pessimistic guess theory: We saw EVERYTHING they had. Lot's of us have put forward the guess that they are flat broke. There is probably no one on a paid staff anymore. That's why there was no word from Ivan and Lesley. Anyone we saw doing anything for it--Matt, a few writers-- were doing it for free. Any tangible stuff we saw was also all they had. They announced a bunch of movies that were owned by Shout or PD. That shirt artwork that was black and white. That's all there is, a black and white sketch done by someone long ago. It could be why there's only old designs Tom, Crow and Gypsy on it. Joel just pulled it out of the zillions of overpriced pre-poduction work he had done back in Season 11. Only one video? They literally had nothing else shot, and it seems like that was shot weeks/months? ago. They had one video, and they spliced it up into TDay bumpers. It's why the gizmoplex is down, but the vimeo front is still open--it's probably being propped up by Shout. I can't imagine this not being true. There's no other reason to run the fundraiser the way they did. We know what their budget was for each season, we know they overran costs at least once, and we know the Gizmoplex wasn't doing gangbusters in subscription sales (Why would it? Everyone who cared received a free subscription). I doubt the tours were very profitable (if they made any money at all, it was probably just enough to keep the lights on for the past few months). In all likelihood, the show is either flat-broke or so close to being flat-broke that doing the bare-minimum for the Season 14 crowdfunder was the only option. Nothing else makes sense.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Nov 27, 2023 15:17:09 GMT -5
I think they would've been better served by being up-front and blunt about that.
"We're flat busted. Help us keep the lights on and fund another season."
It wouldn't have inspired confidence, necessarily, but it would've put a fire under more people. Maybe some sympathy money.
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 27, 2023 16:14:30 GMT -5
Pessimistic guess theory: We saw EVERYTHING they had. Lot's of us have put forward the guess that they are flat broke. There is probably no one on a paid staff anymore. That's why there was no word from Ivan and Lesley. Anyone we saw doing anything for it--Matt, a few writers-- were doing it for free. Any tangible stuff we saw was also all they had. They announced a bunch of movies that were owned by Shout or PD. That shirt artwork that was black and white. That's all there is, a black and white sketch done by someone long ago. It could be why there's only old designs Tom, Crow and Gypsy on it. Joel just pulled it out of the zillions of overpriced pre-poduction work he had done back in Season 11. Only one video? They literally had nothing else shot, and it seems like that was shot weeks/months? ago. They had one video, and they spliced it up into TDay bumpers. It's why the gizmoplex is down, but the vimeo front is still open--it's probably being propped up by Shout. I can't imagine this not being true. There's no other reason to run the fundraiser the way they did. We know what their budget was for each season, we know they overran costs at least once, and we know the Gizmoplex wasn't doing gangbusters in subscription sales (Why would it? Everyone who cared received a free subscription). I doubt the tours were very profitable (if they made any money at all, it was probably just enough to keep the lights on for the past few months). In all likelihood, the show is either flat-broke or so close to being flat-broke that doing the bare-minimum for the Season 14 crowdfunder was the only option. Nothing else makes sense. ------------- To add to all of this I'll restate why I came to the conclusion they were bankrupt. Choosing to launch before the strike was over and so close to the rewards debacle. There was only one explanation for that IMO and now it's even more clear it wasn't 'We have so much planned for Turkey Day!' This was a 'save Matt and co's jobs before christmas' campaign. They ran out of money in Oct. Lesley dissappeared from the forums after Oct. They shot everything they were going to shoot in Oct. The virtual theater didn't get relaunched in oct as promised.
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 27, 2023 16:16:21 GMT -5
I think they would've been better served by being up-front and blunt about that. "We're flat busted. Help us keep the lights on and fund another season." It wouldn't have inspired confidence, necessarily, but it would've put a fire under more people. Maybe some sympathy money. a small ask 'help us get through the strike' pledge drive would have gotten a bunch more sympathy and likely worked to buy them time for a full campaign next year.
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Post by BoB3K on Nov 27, 2023 16:17:01 GMT -5
It wouldn't have inspired confidence, necessarily, but it would've put a fire under more people. Maybe some sympathy money. I have a feeling a good portion of that $2.7M they did raise was already sympathy money.
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Post by BoB3K on Nov 27, 2023 16:18:09 GMT -5
a small ask 'help us get through the strike' pledge drive would have gotten a bunch more sympathy and likely worked to buy them time for a full campaign next year. Now that's an interesting idea. Ask for a little money from the diehards, and then use it to make another prime time KS. That might have actually worked.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Nov 27, 2023 16:23:37 GMT -5
The thing I don't understand is the disconnect between what Joel said in many many interviews, that he was done if the fans didn't want to fund it kind of gloom, and then there's the peppy "we're not giving up" can-do attitude from the end of the campaign.
Clearly the campaign update and epilogue were written by someone other than Joel, but I still don't understand why he, in public-facing interviews was so doom and gloom.
Did he think it would motivate people? Is he basically 100% checked out at this point and Matt is the only person even trying? That has to be very frustrating for Matt if the public figurehead is out there undercutting what you're trying to do.
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Post by missionpanic on Nov 27, 2023 16:32:38 GMT -5
Wow. I remember a band I like put a compilation album together and used the money to help keep their crew paid during COVID, it apparently helped a lot. They could have sold downloads of the shorts! I'd have bought them.
One thing I've seen brought up is that they're not making new fans. Season 13 being Gizmoplex-exclusive did it no favors - if your first exposure to it is Turkey Day alongside The Beatniks and Prince of Space it's not going to come off well.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Nov 27, 2023 16:35:07 GMT -5
One thing I've seen brought up is that they're not making new fans. Season 13 being Gizmoplex-exclusive did it no favors - if your first exposure to it is Turkey Day alongside The Beatniks and Prince of Space it's not going to come off well. A fair point. I didn't watch, but I can't imagine the whiplash of going from watching Prince of Space straight to Doctor Mordrid.
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 27, 2023 16:40:10 GMT -5
a small ask 'help us get through the strike' pledge drive would have gotten a bunch more sympathy and likely worked to buy them time for a full campaign next year. Now that's an interesting idea. Ask for a little money from the diehards, and then use it to make another prime time KS. That might have actually worked. for sure.. Joel could have easily at least sold his 'in person riffing/puppetteering/etc' classes, personalize holiday greetings, etc in addition to merch and 'just helping donations'. 'Make Joel watch Mike episodes goal', I suspect they are so deep in debt that they really needed millions in Nov to keep their office/studio/jobs. So that might not have been an option. Further evidence of that was the movies announced were loaded with Shout owned stuff and Plan 9 which is public domain (ie FREE). It's not out of the realm of possibility that the initial ask of 4.8 million for 6 episodes included almost nothing for movie rights for several of the episodes .. that They were trying to get their heads above water and Shout should have and likely did agree to let them use the corman movies they own for free/almost free but keep it hush hush in the campaign. They were padding the ask to pay for old debts IMO. You can see it on the rewards side of the budget chart too. They were offering very little in physical rewards this time yet the budget for that side was still an enormous chunk of the pie. If they hit 4.8 million that would be 1.3 million to send out some magnets, shirts, backer updates.. REGARDLESS of how many actual orders of those physical rewards there are. Think about that. It's not a seperate bucket to fill the orders like a merch store.. it's all the same bucket. Much less merch, less complicated merch, only done for those who want it instead of bundling with certain tiers of backing, and a much BIGGER PERCENTAGE of the total season budget which is already much higher than previous seasons despite using movies that are likely cheap/free. putting it all together... they were in a deep hole and the whole campaign was designed to pay off debt first IMO.
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 27, 2023 16:44:52 GMT -5
The thing I don't understand is the disconnect between what Joel said in many many interviews, that he was done if the fans didn't want to fund it kind of gloom, and then there's the peppy "we're not giving up" can-do attitude from the end of the campaign. Clearly the campaign update and epilogue were written by someone other than Joel, but I still don't understand why he, in public-facing interviews was so doom and gloom. Did he think it would motivate people? Is he basically 100% checked out at this point and Matt is the only person even trying? That has to be very frustrating for Matt if the public figurehead is out there undercutting what you're trying to do. Joel was being pretty honest in the interviews as that is public record that will live on.. he didn't want folks to think he went down as a failure and wanted to make it clear that he feels like he accomplished what he wanted to do but I'm sure he felt bad when the reality started to set in on his remaining team... likely teary eyed conference calls and talks about having to downsize houses/etc.. It's one thing for him to be done with it but he's a human being who has love for his team too.
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 27, 2023 17:00:10 GMT -5
there is what looks like a MST3K fundraising scam on ShoutTV's website right now.. shout-tv.com/top of the page. WTH is that? Attachments:
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Post by Diet Kolos on Nov 27, 2023 17:09:08 GMT -5
Maybe they were going to do a pledge drive on Shout Factory's website also to help raise money but it just launched way way too late?
Maybe this is their plan to help have other partners give them money. Shout Factory just passively raises money for a few months and then they use that as a supplement to even more fundraising?
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 27, 2023 17:16:38 GMT -5
Maybe they were going to do a pledge drive on Shout Factory's website also to help raise money but it just launched way way too late? Maybe this is their plan to help have other partners give them money. Shout Factory just passively raises money for a few months and then they use that as a supplement to even more fundraising? but they couldn't be bothered to tell anyone? hmm. Mods on the main forum are saying 'don't touch it' and are trying to get confirmation.. problem is they are in such denial about lesley and ivan not working with mst3k anymore and that is who they emailed about it. smh.
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Post by said43 on Nov 27, 2023 17:23:19 GMT -5
I didn't see it at first because of my adblocker.
If this is the strategy for season 14, I think they're better off trying another fundraiser.
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