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Post by AndrewTS on Feb 2, 2004 1:40:32 GMT -5
Joel vs. Mike is something that is often banned from discussion in MST3K forums.
But Pearl usually gets tons of heat, bashed constantly, etc.
On the upside, I'm glad they moved away from her original Season 7 character. I didn't find it funny in the least when she was like that.
When MST3K went to Sci Fi, they completely changed her character, and wisely. However, instead of a character unique to her, she seemed to be just trying to be Dr. F and failing.
The "Girl in Gold Boots" episode where she was trying to get certified really hit the nail on the head for me: "There's nothing truly mad going on here."
There are some funny moments with her, but generally they fall flat and you're glad that they don't take place that often.
Brain Guy...love the character. Great concept, pulled off perfectly. If Corbett could pull off a faux-British accent to go with the snooty all-knowing Observer, than I'd like him even more. Usually he's the highlight of the Sci Fi host segments for me.
Bobo...well, he's stupid and usually is just the butt of jokes and the recipient of punishment for sight gags. He's a big, hairy, nothing otherwise. Makes me feel bad to say that, knowing from personal experience how miserable it is to be in a heavy costume like that, sweating your butt off, and your performance being rather wasted. However, Bobo just kinda seemed to be an extraneous character. I guess it would not have worked as well if it was just Observer and Pearl. They probably felt after Frank that they need to have a dumb lummox to take punishment.
After all, it always seemed to me: Pearl = Moe, Bobo = Curly, Observer = Larry
So Bobo just being a blithering idiot who didn't amount to much but trouble has its place I guess, but the character doesn't work for me as well as Observer. However, when Brain Guy and Bobo sometimes get to work together in episodes, they shine.
Am I alone in thinking that maybe Brain Guy could have easily taken the role in being the one to continue the "experiments" on Mike and Bots, with Bobo as his lacky, and it would have worked well? They could have gotten rid of Pearl early in season 8, after all...
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Post by Ator on Feb 2, 2004 2:54:31 GMT -5
I've always gotten a laugh from Bobo's goofy antics. He may be a dumb, pointless character, but he did add some to the show.
Brain Guy is awesome though.
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Post by Rowsdower on Feb 2, 2004 13:19:31 GMT -5
I can't nail down an answer to this one...I see a fragment of my opinion in just about every single post here...
Dr.Forrester and Frank are great...but overrated at the same time, Mary Jo mugs too much and is annoying a lot of the time (but that was the character), but she can make me laugh (and she's a good comedic writer), Bobo is sometimes grating because he's so dumb he's a cliche, Brain Guy is underrated...on and on. Dr. Erhardt just sucked.
Of the 'mads' etc...if I had to make a list:
TV's Frank is simply my favorite. I'm not even putting him on the list (and no, I don't think putting him as #1 would be accurate).
1. Dr.F 2. Brain Guy 3. Pearl 4. Bobo 5. Jack Perkins 6. Larry
There's a movie on TV right now called Hitler's SS: Portrait In Evil and in the opening pan across a crowd of Brown Shirts and Nazi Party supporters, I c ould have sworn I saw Torgo.
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Post by GizmonicInstitute on Feb 2, 2004 13:51:19 GMT -5
I actually think Josh gets a bad rap for Dr. E. It's really not fair to compare the charatcter to Frank's,as they were very different.Larry was a mad scientist just about if not as much mad as Dr.F, but he was also just used as a test subject for Forrester. Frank was supposed to be likeable guy who just seems so out of place and looking for companionship. Granted,Laurance Erhardt might not do much for you,but maybe we could have grown to like him in his role had Weinstein been around longer.I dunno,just my two cents.
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Post by Blurryeye on Feb 2, 2004 14:19:06 GMT -5
I dunno, maybe it's a guy thing, not finding Pearl funny. Maybe girls (like me) can relate to her better. Just a thought. I have thought the exact same thing, emperorcupcake. I don't know many girls who like MST3K in the first place (actually, just my mom) but we both loved Pearl, and a few of the girls in this forum expressed favor for her, except for NewGirl731 (I'm assuming you are a girl). The most vituperative comments about her have all come from males. I have to think there is a connection. Now, I'm not saying that no guys like her. Just that girls seem to like her more often than guys do. I never noticed anything wrong with her mugging for the camera. Dr. F did that a lot too, although he did have better comic timing. I support Pearl, a strong female character in the male-dominated onscreen world of MST3K. Her duet with Brain Guy in the "Pearl TV" segment is one of my favorite bits. But, I must admit Brain Guy is my favorite SciFi Mad. I can barely stand Bobo. Now that character is irritating! On another topic, Joel is more bizarre than Mike, in that he is more goofy and seems to be on a different mental plane than most people. I love him, but not everyone can relate to him. I know this because I have watched Joel episodes with people who have never seen the show before, and a lot of them thought he was weird and didn't really get him. These same people liked Mike better. Mike just has the "normal guy" persona that more "normal people" find likable. I refuse to choose between them. I love them both.
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Post by Rowsdower on Feb 2, 2004 14:58:43 GMT -5
Well, truthfully, save for Joel, they all enjoy HAMMING IT UP.
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Post by Droppo on Feb 2, 2004 15:10:01 GMT -5
Blurryeye,
Actually every female family member of mine that watches MST3K feels the same way about Pearl, so I don't think it's necessarily a male/female thing...but that's definitely an interesting theory.
I really don't think she's a strong female character. If she was even somewhat likable, I could see that. But, when do we see her redeeming qualities? Frank was such a nice character underneath it all. Forrester, for all his evil ways, clearly had a soft spot for Frank (when he wasn't killing him). They were human and immensely likable. Pearl's character had one switch: mug for the camera, be mean and act kind of stupid (i.e. doesn't know what a worm hole is, the reason she's upset in Roman times about the potential damage they've caused is b/c of Chicken in a Biscuit.) It really was so depressing to see Mike and the bots under her control when she was such a poorly conceived character. I mean, even the way she screwed up Dr. F's experiment in Diabolik. She just wasn't a convincing or enjoyable villain.
And one thing that truly baffles me: even Pearl supporters acknowledge things like "she doesn't have great comedic timing" or "yeah, she can be irritating." To me, that really isn't a strong endorsement. You don't see those kind of qualifications made for Mike, Joel, Trace or Frank (aka, the Mt. Rushmore of MST). I really believe every MST performer should be held to that standard of excellence. There is a reason why MST is considered one of the best shows of all time.
I think it's pretty clear that this is one of the only creative choices that Best Brains made that just didn't work out. It's just a shame, because like I said...I believe the rest of the casting choices post Season 1 were brilliant. The chemistry between Joel/Mike, Kevin, Trace/Bill and Trace/Frank = perfection.
All that said, I adore MST (and its fans, Pearl supporters too!...after all, if we weren't as fanatical as we are, would Rhino release DVD's, would Sci Fi have aired it for 5 years after the last ep?) and it really is my only complaint with the entire series from Season 2 on.
Hikeeba!
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Post by Rowsdower on Feb 2, 2004 15:18:08 GMT -5
oh, and Blurry, count me in as a guy that likes Pearl. I don't love her character, but like I said, I'm not all that fond of Bobo either. I don't 'hate' or 'can't stand' any characters (not even Dr. Erhardt). Like you, I see a 'gender' issue in this discussion and...I'm not going to point fingers at anyone or accuse them of misogyny because I don't think it's that bad...(I hope), but females are given a raw deal in most geeky forums, especially science fiction; we all know how they are presented in the old movies, and they're status as sex symbols for 37 year old virgins in modern sci-fi is not much of an improvement.
I just watched that Sci-Fi Vortex War Room (whatever the hell that is) appearance by Mike and Mary Jo, and I saw it there BIG TIME. Major suicide candidate, Eric Wallace, completely ignores everything that MJ says, deciding to sqaure off against the other males. He did that despite the fact that Mike was just playfully dismissing everything Wallace said with a completely understandable condescending air and Mary Jo was the only one that was answering the questions as seriously as he (E.W.) was. Maybe he's just not used to being around 'girls'.
Goddamn, I hate science fiction and fantasy...
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Post by Rowsdower on Feb 2, 2004 15:21:07 GMT -5
oh yeah, I saw the MST3K Movie before I ever saw any episodes and my first reaction was "GODDAMN IS THIS EVER FUNNY! Too bad about that mad scientist loser (i.e. Dr.F)."
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Post by Blurryeye on Feb 2, 2004 16:35:32 GMT -5
And one thing that truly baffles me: even Pearl supporters acknowledge things like "she doesn't have great comedic timing" or "yeah, she can be irritating." To me, that really isn't a strong endorsement. You don't see those kind of qualifications made for Mike, Joel, Trace or Frank (aka, the Mt. Rushmore of MST). I really believe every MST performer should be held to that standard of excellence. There is a reason why MST is considered one of the best shows of all time. quote] Okay, I see your point, Droppo, but making concessions for weaknesses is part of making a good argument. I don't think Pearl was always funny, but even the vaunted Mike, Joel, Trace and Frank had a few skits that fell flat, or times when they were irritating, or just plain weren't funny. Yes, they should all be held to a standard of excellence. And every performer has failed to reach that standard at one time or another. It was the standard they set for themselves. I think Trace is a more talented comedic performer than Mary Jo Pehl. I think Trace is a more talented comedic performer than every other person on the show. Pearl was not a horrible, unfunny character to me, that's all. As for being unlikable and inhuman, Pearl was certainly the most brazenly unaffectionate of all the Mads. But she did have a soft, human side. She was sensitive and insecure about the possibility of not measuring up as a mad scientist, and there were times when she and Brain Guy shared moments of comfort and mutual affection. It was in a twisted, loopy way, but it was there. Like at the end of, I think, "parts: the clonus horror" the villagers come to the Castle to welcome her. She is disappointed by their lack of fear and loathing, so Brain Guy comforts her by saying gently, "You know, Pearl, I hate you, and fear you, and loathe you, and wish you dead." Then they are both gleeful when she inadvertently dumps scalding water on the villagers. Also, the previously mentioned duet is a touching moment between them. And, she is briefly nice to Crow and Servo in the theater when she switches places with Mike. So she may be selfish and unaffectionate, but she is not inhuman. As for being likable or not, that is dependent on how well one relates to her. It may not be a gender thing. Like I said, I don't know that many females who like MST3K in the first place, so it's hard to make a strong assertion based on a small sample size. But I suspect that it plays a part in love or abject hatred of Pearl, based on the comments I've seen and heard. I realize that I will probably never sway your opinion of her, but I just thought I should defend her a little more. I don't hold anything against you, Droppo, lots of people share your opinion. And MST3K fans are great! P.S. Rowsdower, you rock!
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Post by Udvarnoky on Feb 2, 2004 17:01:49 GMT -5
I'll be honest: I really liked Pearl. Sure, she (as well as Bobo and Brain Guy) was hugely different than our previous Mads, but I often found her quite halarious. ("Yeah, it's supposed to get down to absolute zero...that's why I always wear a sweater!")
Apparently it's just me.
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Post by Droppo on Feb 2, 2004 17:06:52 GMT -5
Blurryeye,
Thanks for the really cool response. Two differing viewpoints, but a totally pleasant (and actually enlightening) discussion.
Bottom line: MST3K is the greatest.
And you're totally right when you say that everyone had a few bad skits here and there. That's a totally fair point. I just kind of think of Joel, Mike, Trace (who, like you said, is probably the funniest performer on the show), Frank and Kevin as "The Beatles" of comedy. It's admittedly a very high standard.
And I actually forgot, there was one episode where I thought Mary Jo actually gave Pearl some humanity in a cool way..."Time Chasers." She and Mike's conversation was a highlight of that episode. I wish we could have seen more of that laidback side to her personality. I just never bought that she was an evil scientist.
And, incidentally, though she's obviously not voiced by a woman....I am an ENORMOUS Gypsy fan. I always thought her relationship was Joel was one of the funniest and bizarrely poignant relationships on the show.
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Post by ChrisDalek on Feb 2, 2004 17:20:10 GMT -5
Phantom Planet, wasn't it? I've never been incredibly keen on Pearl or Bobo, but I do think Brain Guy was excellent. Imagine if we'd had Dr F, Frank and Brain Guy together...
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Post by Blurryeye on Feb 2, 2004 17:59:20 GMT -5
You are right, Kinggodzillak. I couldn't remember exactly which episode it was from. Droppo, you're welcome. And thank you. I wasn't sure whether you would take my response as pleasant exchange or as a call to arms, and thankfully you are a reasonable person and chose the former. You're all right!
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