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Post by mightyjack on Jul 1, 2006 2:26:31 GMT -5
You know I love Comic book flicks, and I really don't mind a director taking time out for character devlopment... But sweet Mother Mary, Singer needed to do some tightening up in the editing room. It just rambles on and on.
On the plus: There are some beautiful shots with Supes flying. They make it look so effortless for him, which it should be. It should be like blinking an eye, it comes naturally for him.
Singer also doesn't do the "Oh poor me" approach, but has Supes being able to hear everything. His pain comes from there being so much suffering and need out there.
The Brando bits, I admit, got me choked up. Lord I loved that mans acting, even slivers of it. And Eva Marie Saint is there, which is a joy (Both actors played in On The Waterfront)
On the downside: It takes forever to make its point. The set up alone is almost excruciatingly slow. Singer belabors the bits where Lex has the crystal shaved, shows us the basement, then drops that shaving into a small pond in the basement. I wanted to scream, I GET IT - EDIT SINGER, EDIT!
It reminds me of an MST riff where the guys complain that they don't need to be shown every detail to know whats happening.
And Lex is a boring villain. I've always hated him in comics and he's no better here. IMHO he's the most dull main villain for a hero ever.
Bottom line: A few brilliant spots are overwhelmed by a movie that needed to be tightened up. People bitch about the Hulk beng dull, but at least every scene in that flick had a purpose or a symbolism which drove the story. Supes just strings scenes out for no reason (and rehashes old bits from the first 2 movies - Once he spoke with Lois, it wasn't really necessary to redo the whole flying around town bit)
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Jul 1, 2006 11:43:29 GMT -5
On the downside: It takes forever to make its point. The set up alone is almost excruciatingly slow. Singer belabors the bits where Lex has the crystal shaved, shows us the basement, then drops that shaving into a small pond in the basement. I wanted to scream, I GET IT - EDIT SINGER, EDIT! It reminds me of an MST riff where the guys complain that they don't need to be shown every detail to know whats happening. The movie may have been 2 and a half hours long, but honestly I was never bored. The only time it came close, was the sequence mentioned above, which did just seem to take forever. I'm not all that familiar with Lex Luthor from the comics, but the way he was portrayed in the films wasn't really my cup of tea either. Gene Hackman is a great actor, but his Luthor played out as more of a bumbling incompetant than a criminal mastermind. However, I will say that Kevin Spacey did an admirable job in taking the character and made him actually intimidating, without distancing himself from the one Hackman already established. I bitch about the Hulk being dull because it was dull. The supposed "symbolism" of the movie didn't go by unnoticed, but the problem with the Hulk is that it kept giving us scenes that look like they are saying something, but they don't mean anything. The sequence where Banner's dying mother runs out of the house and reaches toward an atomic explosion isn't symbolism, it's melodrama to the extreme. Call me crazy, but I never found Superman Returns dull. Yes, I found it a bit redundant with the fact that it reintroduced the character after that job was already done in the films that it kept into continuity, but it does seem a bit neccessary since the character has been gone from the big screen for nearly 20 years. But on the whole, I thought the movie was a lot of fun. I'm still not any bigger a Superman fan, more casual passerby than anything, but I enjoy visiting his world every now and then. Spider-Man and Batman still are heads and heels above the Man of Steel in my book, though.
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Post by ash2 on Jul 1, 2006 13:20:41 GMT -5
Personally, I loved the new movie. I knew from the start when the credit's text was the same as in the original movies that this was meant to be a valentine to the original movies and so I didn't try to judge it on any other basis.
There were many down sides. Routh's acting was kind of hoe-hum. He just didn't have the same charisma as Reeves and I was disappointed that he didn't have a gosh-shucks voice for the Clark scenes.
Supes lifting the continent while climaxtic was a bit unbeleievalbe especially with all the kryptonite right next to him.
I also didn't think Bosworth was all that great. I never liked Margo Kidder but I'd take her over Bosworth anyday.
The good:
Kevin Spacey and Parker Posey were both perfect. Spacey played the role as a sadistic and insane. His plan was not that of a "Criminal Mastermind" it was that of a mental patient and that's how he played the role. Roger Ebert commented that it looked like he wasn't having any fun. I thought he looked like he was having the time of his life.
Posey, played Kitty as if she was a woman from the forties stuck in a modern woman's world. The fact that she felt a simple slap on the face was enough retropution after Lex almost murdered her speaks volumes.
The bullet hitting Supes eye and flatning. You can't tell me that wasn't cool!
The scene where the goons beat up Supes was actually hard to watch. I really felt that what they were doing was wrong and not on a moral level on an almost personal one. I thought to myself, "didn't these goons grow up loving superman, how can they do that?" Then I remembered it was a movie. I loved all the tributes to the original especially when Lois goes up for a smoke. What a throwback, there's no smoking in movies today.
Unanswered question
Why does superman's son need an inhaler and such. Is the kid faking?
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Post by Ratso on Jul 1, 2006 15:20:54 GMT -5
I'm the biggest Superman geek here, and I was disappointed with this film. (I did not even set my standards high) This movie is basically a ripoff of the first two Reeves films which they deny by saying It's a "vague sequel" well vague sequel my ass. Singer not only had his actors recite the same damn lines from the first film, but he went as far as to hire a guy that resembled Reeves! Oh and lets not forget Luthor is doing another realestate scandal! Oh how original! But the worst thing about this film was the last 30 minutes, when Superman saves the world it is very anti-climatic, but not only that after he saves the world they send him to a freaking hospital. That scene was a waste of time.
What this movie needed was a new villain, somebody who can be a physical threat to superman and at the same time freak out the audience.
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Post by mightyjack on Jul 2, 2006 0:23:03 GMT -5
I bitch about the Hulk being dull because it was dull. The supposed "symbolism" of the movie didn't go by unnoticed, but the problem with the Hulk is that it kept giving us scenes that look like they are saying something, but they don't mean anything. The sequence where Banner's dying mother runs out of the house and reaches toward an atomic explosion isn't symbolism, it's melodrama to the extreme. Hulk is one of the best, most poetically beautiful comics films ever made. It's simply a perfect film and I'm sorry you couldn't appreciate the symbolism SLAM!. edit: Gee, I woder if I Torgo will possibly get the last word in this time? Hmm, probably not
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Jul 2, 2006 0:36:50 GMT -5
I just watched this movie, and while I can tell that it was underwhelming to a lot of people here I thoroughly enjoyed myself with it.
GEEK BINGO: there was plenty to mark on your Geek Bingo Cards, from the reference to the "birthday clown homicide" early on, a few other Batman mentions, the recreation of the first Action Comics cover, the obligatory "It's a bird!" "It's a plane!" "No, it's..." bit, etc.
LUTHOR: I enjoyed this take on Luthor for the same reasons that I enjoyed Mark Hamill's take on the Joker: it's like a tribute to several different takes on the villain at once. He went from deranged psycho to criminal mastermind to witty-banter-guy, and made it seem natural. I also thought about how he was doing yet another "real estate deal," and that actually added to my appreciation for his character rather than detracted from it.
The scene on Lex's island initially didn't seem that great to me, but quickly moved me. At first I was wondering why Superman couldn't tell that he was basically standing on an entire island made out of Kryptonite.
But then the goons started beating him up. That got to me. On the one hand, it's hard to watch anyone take a beating like that. The fact that it was happening to Superman just magnified it for me. The whole time I was just kinda struck by how I was watching something that was wrong on so many levels.
I was glad when Luthor ended that scene. I also think it's neat that while Luthor didn't ensure that Superman was a corpse, he also didn't leave him in some ridiculously slow deathtrap. You get realism, but the same basic effect: I mean, without the copter returning there's no way that Supes would've lived through that.
Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed myself while watching it. I can understand why it wasn't everyone else's cup of tea, but I'm glad I spent the money to see it in the theater.
Oh, and I'll agree: the bullet hitting his eye rocked.
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Post by mightyjack on Jul 2, 2006 0:45:53 GMT -5
Yeah that eye thing was way cool and there was a lot to like about the movie. But it needed to be tightened up for me and I'm with Ratso. An ass kicking villain would have been nice.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Jul 2, 2006 1:35:24 GMT -5
edit: Gee, I woder if I Torgo will possibly get the last word in this time? Hmm, probably not Word. There. Was that the last?
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Post by mightyjack on Jul 2, 2006 3:07:46 GMT -5
Torgo you magnificent son of a bitch. One day I'll get the last dig in. Someday, I swear! ;D
One thing, how cool was it that Noel Neill (One of the orginal Lois Lanes) had a part. I didn't know she was still alive (she'd be in her late 80's by now)
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Post by Jack Burton on Jul 2, 2006 8:51:35 GMT -5
WHILE WATCHING SUPERMAN RETURNS YOU KNOW YOU’RE IN TROUBLE WHEN…
1. You pay $10 to see a Superman movie and the most memorable thing that happens is a dog eating another dog. Canine Cannibalism has it's place, just not in a Superman movie. 2. Lois has Superman's son, yet all you can think about is Brodie's speech in Mallrats and why this cannot be feasible. 3. You read James Karen's name in the credits and when the movie's over you wonder out loud "Just where the hell was James Karen?" 4. Not one solitary moment of the movie lives up to the Clark vs. Evil Superman fight in the junkyard in Superman 3. 5. Not one solitary moment of the movie lives up to fight between Superman and Nuclear Man (Mark Pillow) on the Great Wall of China in Superman IV: The Quest for Peace. 6. You wonder out loud what the hell happened to Mark Pillow. 7. You start wishing Parker Posey had played Lois Lane instead of Kate Blandsworth (I mean Bosworth). 8. You wonder out loud what happened to Mark Pillow. 9. You look at this movie's acting and start appreciating the subtle nuances of Robert Vaughn in Superman 3 "I ask you to kill Superman and you can't even do that one simple thing!" 10. You wonder out loud if Krypton blew up and became radioactive (making Superman vulnerable to Kryptonite), wouldn't he be harmed by ANY traces of Krypton floating out in space? 11. You start thinking Superman IV: The Quest for Peace was a touching masterfully crafted film next to this nightmare. 12. You remind your date after the movie to look up Mark Pillow on IMDB.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Jul 2, 2006 10:48:38 GMT -5
2. Lois has Superman's son, yet all you can think about is Brodie's speech in Mallrats and why this cannot be feasible. Ironicly, this did cross my mind, mostly because I watched Mallrats about a week ago. "I guarantee you the guy blows a load like a shotgun."
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Post by Shep on Jul 2, 2006 11:18:25 GMT -5
1. You pay $10 to see a Superman movie and the most memorable thing that happens is a dog eating another dog. Canine Cannibalism has it's place, just not in a Superman movie. There's dog eating dog?! Oh, crap, Mrs. Shep will never see this with me now. She cries over Lassie eps on TV.
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Post by monarch on Jul 3, 2006 8:59:39 GMT -5
Superman is earth's greatest dead beat dad! At the end, he's like time to go on space patrol again; see ya later Lois in another 5 years. Man, my son is a creepy kid. Well, he's got a knack for piano.
Everyone raves about Singer but he didn't deliver with this lackluster remake of the original 1978 Superman, that actually is a sequel to the Donner films and skips over Superman 3 and 4 (not that that is a bad thing).
As recent comicbook movies, Batman Begins for all it's confusion to the casual fan, is by far the best. Chris Nolan the Monarch's got your back over that Singer chap any day of the week.
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Post by mightyjack on Jul 4, 2006 14:10:21 GMT -5
That was eloquent
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Jul 4, 2006 15:05:30 GMT -5
The part where you agree with me.
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