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Post by Mod City on May 12, 2010 11:02:05 GMT -5
Boy, I don't know. I'm starting to think it might have been a mistake to introduce Jacob/MIB at all this season. We learned some things, but the rabbit hole just keeps going.
We figured out what the relationship is between Jacob and MIB - brothers. But who the bloody hell is Claudia? With whom was she traveling? When did this episode take place? Who are Jacob and his brother's father? Their adoptive mother states, "Any answers I give will only lead to more questions." Thanks, writers. Thanks a lot. I'm all for the vague and ambiguous side of things - mystery is fun - but this is getting a little ridiculous.
I'm not familiar with Briscoe County, but I hated the glowing bog thing. And that line, "everybody has a little piece of this light inside them, but they always want more." Oh, come on. Really? Ugh. It just flew of the rails left and right for me last night.
And just so I'm straight on this – up until this episode, the Man In Black we've seen in scenes with Jacob is actually the smoke monster in the guise of Jacob's brother, right? Jacob's brother (and adoptive mother) have been dead for a long, long time. Does that jibe with what everyone else is seeing?
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Post by angilasman on May 12, 2010 11:17:08 GMT -5
^No, the smoke monster is what MIB has turned into. The Mom warned him that you'd become something worse than dead if you were ever to go into the watery Marsellus Wallace briefcase.
Me, I'm getting tired of all this explanation and mythology - it's the characters we love that make Lost and make it satisfying. The explanations don't matter.
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Post by Captain Hygiene on May 12, 2010 11:23:00 GMT -5
We figured out what the relationship is between Jacob and MIB - brothers. But who the bloody hell is Claudia? With whom was she traveling? When did this episode take place? Who are Jacob and his brother's father? Their adoptive mother states, "Any answers I give will only lead to more questions." Thanks, writers. Thanks a lot. I'm all for the vague and ambiguous side of things - mystery is fun - but this is getting a little ridiculous. I thought it could be taken to mean that Jacob and MIB weren't necessarily anybody special, they (secondhandedly) stumbled onto the island with the group of other people, who seem like they're just intelligent folks making the best of a bad situation. It was the adoptive mother character who was something different, and she made them special, the real mystery is behind her.
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Post by Mr. Atari on May 12, 2010 11:28:04 GMT -5
I don't need to know everybody's backstory and everything back to "island patient zero." I agree with Damon that once you explain the Force is a bunch of microscopic bacteria and that Darth Vader was a whiny kid who went to the dark side because no one understood his teenage rants, it kind of ruins the Star Wars universe.
So I don't care where Claudia came from or who was the guardian before "Mother". Likewise, I suppose I didn't really care about Jacob/MIB's backstory all that much. But I am glad they showed that the magnetic pockets = the magic light, and that the donkey wheel is a way to harness that power, and that Adam & Eve are the MIB and his not-mom decomposing in a weird Oedipal arrangement. It's like they're giving a backstory, but not really explaining the details of every mystery; which I find far more satisfying than if they said, "Smokey is made of nanobots." or "the magic light is radiation from a buried meteorite."
Since the first season, I've thought that the island was a floating Garden of Eden, and that the monster was the guarding angel, keeping people out. I was satisfied to see that while my theory is sort of right, the answer isn't that explicit. Are the boys Cain and Abel? Yes and no. Is "the heart of the island" the tree of knowledge? Yes and no. Is the island Eden? Well, not really. But kind of.
Basically, I love that they are taking classic archetypical mythical stories, then reshaping them to tell their story. For me, last night's episode was highly derivative and cheesy, but also very original and compelling.
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Post by Mod City on May 12, 2010 12:51:32 GMT -5
^No, the smoke monster is what MIB has turned into. The Mom warned him that you'd become something worse than dead if you were ever to go into the watery Marsellus Wallace briefcase. Then why is there a dead body of Jacob's brother? I saw the scene where MIB gets flushed a parallel to the smoke monster assuming Locke's appearance. Whatever happens when Jacob's brother floats into the cave releases the smoke monster from its prison. Therefore, the MIB we see on the beach with Jacob at the end of the fifth season is the smoke monster. He's no more Jacob's brother than the current smoke monster is John Locke. The mythology is a great part of the show, but it's suffocating the storyline. I guess you have to have episodes like this to try to satisfy a lot of the fans, but for some reason it's just not doing it for me. I don't know - I've found lots of stuff to like about this season. They've built up so much goodwill with previous seasons that I'm willing to just let them tell me the story. But while I expected this season to really click with me, it just hasn't. I don't know how to explain it any other way. I'm still really, really interested to see how it comes out, though.
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Post by crowschmo on May 12, 2010 17:55:08 GMT -5
I think alot of writers just get in over their heads. They come up with these great ideas, and everything's good when the mystery is still intact, but once they try to explain things, it just isn't satisfying, and it's just a roll-your-eyes-and-groan kind of moment. (The same thing happened for me in the US version of "Life on Mars", and is still happening with "Supernatural"). Life's a mystery, and when we puny humans try to explain it (even in our made up versions of it), it never quite clicks. We want answers - but when it doesn't live up to the mystery, it just, well, sucks.
I'm still hoping they come up with something satisfying, but that whole light in the cave thing, and a stupid wooden wheel that can "control" the forces on the island, (and the smoke monster from the get-go) just kind of left me...bleh.
They never did say what that other kid's name was, did they?
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Post by mummifiedstalin on May 12, 2010 22:12:02 GMT -5
I think alot of writers just get in over their heads. They come up with these great ideas, and everything's good when the mystery is still intact, but once they try to explain things, it just isn't satisfying, and it's just a roll-your-eyes-and-groan kind of moment. (The same thing happened for me in the US version of "Life on Mars", and is still happening with "Supernatural"). Life's a mystery, and when we puny humans try to explain it (even in our made up versions of it), it never quite clicks. We want answers - but when it doesn't live up to the mystery, it just, well, sucks. I'm still hoping they come up with something satisfying, but that whole light in the cave thing, and a stupid wooden wheel that can "control" the forces on the island, (and the smoke monster from the get-go) just kind of left me...bleh. They never did say what that other kid's name was, did they? According to the producers, they've known since season 2 how the entire story would end. I hope they weren't lying.
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Post by Mod City on May 13, 2010 0:18:23 GMT -5
We figured out what the relationship is between Jacob and MIB - brothers. But who the bloody hell is Claudia? With whom was she traveling? When did this episode take place? Who are Jacob and his brother's father? Their adoptive mother states, "Any answers I give will only lead to more questions." Thanks, writers. Thanks a lot. I'm all for the vague and ambiguous side of things - mystery is fun - but this is getting a little ridiculous. I thought it could be taken to mean that Jacob and MIB weren't necessarily anybody special, they (secondhandedly) stumbled onto the island with the group of other people, who seem like they're just intelligent folks making the best of a bad situation. It was the adoptive mother character who was something different, and she made them special, the real mystery is behind her. Yeah, people do tend to stumble upon the island, and there always seems to be someone already there. No real reason to think Jacob and MIB were any different. They're just like the current candidates in that regard. I may have missed the normal cast of the show a bit this week, adding to my restlessness. This episode aside, I'm ready for the final run. I'm curious to see if my opinion of this episode changes after it's all over.
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Post by Captain Hygiene on May 13, 2010 9:44:09 GMT -5
I think alot of writers just get in over their heads. They come up with these great ideas, and everything's good when the mystery is still intact, but once they try to explain things, it just isn't satisfying, and it's just a roll-your-eyes-and-groan kind of moment. (The same thing happened for me in the US version of "Life on Mars", and is still happening with "Supernatural"). Life's a mystery, and when we puny humans try to explain it (even in our made up versions of it), it never quite clicks. We want answers - but when it doesn't live up to the mystery, it just, well, sucks. I'm still hoping they come up with something satisfying, but that whole light in the cave thing, and a stupid wooden wheel that can "control" the forces on the island, (and the smoke monster from the get-go) just kind of left me...bleh. They never did say what that other kid's name was, did they? Everything on the island can be explained by negatively-charged exotic matter. Except MIB's real name (Steve).
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Post by crowschmo on May 15, 2010 12:59:29 GMT -5
I think alot of writers just get in over their heads. They come up with these great ideas, and everything's good when the mystery is still intact, but once they try to explain things, it just isn't satisfying, and it's just a roll-your-eyes-and-groan kind of moment. (The same thing happened for me in the US version of "Life on Mars", and is still happening with "Supernatural"). Life's a mystery, and when we puny humans try to explain it (even in our made up versions of it), it never quite clicks. We want answers - but when it doesn't live up to the mystery, it just, well, sucks. I'm still hoping they come up with something satisfying, but that whole light in the cave thing, and a stupid wooden wheel that can "control" the forces on the island, (and the smoke monster from the get-go) just kind of left me...bleh. They never did say what that other kid's name was, did they? Everything on the island can be explained by negatively-charged exotic matter. Except MIB's real name (Steve). Are you sure it's not Ken?
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Post by Captain Hygiene on May 16, 2010 22:00:55 GMT -5
Yep. Steve all the way.
I rewatched the episode, and enjoyed it more the second time, knowing what to expect. I think this is the exception to Lost in that it's a story that probably played better on paper than it did on TV. Most scripts seem to be the other way around. I enjoyed this one as providing some backstory on Jacob and his brother, and I can accept that pretty much everything that happened was related to the "Source" or the "exotic matter"; the writers aren't going to provide more than a general pseudo-scientific reasoning for everything that happens. If the show has taught me anything, it's that the people who know what's going on don't actually know much of anything - I'm convinced that the "mother" character was just trying her best to explain what was going on, without really knowing anything. It's really no different than what we've seen all along, it's just that folks like the Dharma Initiative had a bit more of a scientific explanation for the Island's anomalies.
As an aside, I've finally been rewatching the series, and it's been a blast. The amount of synchronicity with the references that this season has made to past episodes has sometimes been eerie. I've been going through season five now, and it's taken on a new meaning. At the time, I loved seeing the apparently-resurrected John Locke moving along as a completely self-assured, almost Messianic leader moving through the story, with Ben being dragged along, basically out his league. But now, knowing what really happened to Locke, almost every line of dialogue has taken on a new meaning, with "Locke" basically smirking at everyone every time he says something, couching everything he says with a second, real meaning. It's brilliant, the writers must have been laughing in their sleeves the whole season.
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Post by angilasman on May 18, 2010 21:58:05 GMT -5
^No, the smoke monster is what MIB has turned into. The Mom warned him that you'd become something worse than dead if you were ever to go into the watery Marsellus Wallace briefcase. Then why is there a dead body of Jacob's brother? I saw the scene where MIB gets flushed a parallel to the smoke monster assuming Locke's appearance. Whatever happens when Jacob's brother floats into the cave releases the smoke monster from its prison. Therefore, the MIB we see on the beach with Jacob at the end of the fifth season is the smoke monster. He's no more Jacob's brother than the current smoke monster is John Locke. To put it bluntly: he fell into the magic glowy thingy and bad stuff happened to him.
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Post by Captain Hygiene on May 19, 2010 8:32:24 GMT -5
I suspect it ripped out his essence and left his body behind. Everything the monster has said, all of his actions and motives, and everything Jacob has said about him point to it being the same being at heart. I admit that they could elaborate on his nature in the finale, but for now I'm utterly convinced the monster is Jacob's brother.
---- Last night's episode was awesome, by the way, and everything a penultimate episode should be. I was actually surprised at the amount that happened, particularly in the discussion with Jacob - I assumed they'd just set that up and leave it until Sunday's finale. I'm glad to see that Jack took up the job, without any fuss. For once, something went as I'd expected and hoped, with Jack's character arc leading perfectly into this decision. I had some last-minute doubts that Hurley might choose, given his scene with Jacob in the taxi last season, but I'm glad Jack took it (barring last-minute twists by the writers).
Great moments also with Ben's interaction with the fake Locke. Even at the end, they're both scheming against one another, and I loved the smirk on Locke's face as Ben seems to be all for killing everyone in Locke's way. One loose end that I wonder about is what happened to Miles? He just kind of disappeared, and I can't help but suspect he has something more to do, (I hope) with Jacob's brother's body in the caves. The writers reminded us that it's still around on the last episode, and Miles' claim to fame is reading people's last thoughts...it's set up for something.
The alternate universe scenes are getting insane, with all of the characters converging towards one another. Desmond is still great, especially his actions to Ben and explanation about what he was doing to Locke. Hurley had the funniest moment after his reveal, he's hilariously the same in every universe, apparently. Finally, incredible moments in the discussion between alt-universe Locke and Jack. I'm actually split evenly on what will happen with the surgery and how it might impact the real timeline.
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Post by Mod City on May 19, 2010 12:13:24 GMT -5
I liked this episode a whole heck of a lot more than last week's. Some interesting stuff, to be sure. We finally get back to Ben, Richard and Miles and the rest of the regular cast.
Some thoughts:
• The flash-sideways is starting to come together a bit. Desmond and Hurley seem to be the only ones that are fully on board, but the others are coming around. Hurley's exchange with Ana Lucia was funny and telling. On their way to a Driveshaft concert, are they?
• Ben sold out Widmore and his girl just like that. Locke then kills her and Ben shoots down Charles. Interesting. But in the thick of it all, Richard is killed (?) and Miles disappears.
• Jack doesn't look entirely sure about his volunteering to be Jacob's replacement. Will that make a difference?
• What happens to Kate, Sawyer and Hurley?
• I don't know if Jack will fail or succeed in helping Locke in the sideways timeline, but I'm definitely excited to see what happens.
Weird to think we're going to have a whole lot of Lost on Sunday. Looking forward to it.
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Post by Phantom Engineer on May 19, 2010 16:47:50 GMT -5
I don't buy Jack taking the job, I suspect a red herring. After Jack took it Hurley said " I'm glad it's not me." Hmmmm, that could mean something.
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