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Post by Diet Kolos on Feb 5, 2024 20:23:21 GMT -5
My confirmation bias doesn't need stoking at this point. The massive flop of the season 14 campaign confirmed what I already knew.
But on the other hand, one doesn't see too many pro nu-mst takes with 10k likes or their equivalent on many other social media platforms, dumpster fire or not.
*shrug*
And Tim Ryder is still flailing around in the replies, days later. Sure is persistent. Reminds me...of...
*shakes head*
No, no, that would be silly...
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Post by kracker on Feb 5, 2024 21:34:24 GMT -5
Ooof A lot of pots calling the kettles black today.
I mean it is a funny witty joke, hey made me laugh. Humor kind of reigns supreme on social media, whether its actually apt or not after you actually think about it.
The point about cultural references remains. but hey hes right, nu-MST3K was just suffering from the lack of Frank Zappa references and other midwestern humor, who knew? 10K likes, just cant be wrong.
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Post by intonyeon on Feb 6, 2024 10:23:16 GMT -5
The brains themselves suffered from being egotistical since they claimed that MST3K fans were always soooo smart
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Post by Megalon on Feb 6, 2024 12:16:46 GMT -5
I'm more interested in what this means for the future of the show. A rise in toxicity usually doesn't bode well.
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Post by BoB3K on Feb 6, 2024 13:39:59 GMT -5
I'm more interested in what this means for the future of the show. A rise in toxicity usually doesn't bode well. I don't know that I would call most of what I read 'toxicity'. (I will say, I'm of the camp that thinks that word is often used as a reactionary push-back term.) I thought most of it was just more straight-forward discontent or even just apathy towards the reboot edition of the show. As for how that bodes, if we assume it is the real sentiment of the majority of fans, or at least of the larger moderate to casual fans, it means the show needs another reboot and overhaul (or I guess un-overhaul, maybe going back to a smaller, tighter crew). And likely not right away, but after this current iteration has faded a little.
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Post by kracker on Feb 6, 2024 15:02:18 GMT -5
There's a big difference between toxicity and discontent. Straight-forward discontent and apathy doesn't involve attacking others just for having an differing opinion or souring the discourse with hypocrisy and fallacy instead of actually discussing the dissatisfaction with the show. Granted, you're right, that isn't MOST of what we're currently seeing (out there anyway), but we did see a lot more of it during the failed campaign, and it doesn't take much. The whole "my old geeky out-of-touch references were better than your new geeky out-of-touch references" take can get rather unfair and toxic, not without help but still.
EDIT: Just read something George R.R. Martin said about 'anti-fans' on social media that though it was more poignant:
"Toxicity is growing. It used to be fun talking about our favorite books and films, and having spirited debates with fans who saw things different… but ... it is no longer enough to say “I did not like [this] book ... or [this] film, and here’s why.” ... [people] would rather talk about the stuff they hate than the stuff they love, and delight in dancing on the graves of anyone whose film has flopped"
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Post by mylungswereaching on Feb 7, 2024 11:07:13 GMT -5
I'll say this: tone is what matters. old-MST3K had its own problem with topical culture references that don't hold up. I remember when I first watched MST3K with The Brain That Wouldn't Die and I heard jokes like "We now join Barefoot in the Park already in progress", I had no idea what that was but Mike had me laughing anyway because he knows how to deliver the joke so everyone gets it. Also using a Twitter thread as a poll isn't exactly scientific, because you're polling among people who are silly enough to argue or pile on about how who's set of cultural references are better rather than doing the smart thing that Tim should have done and just ignore such an ironically dumb and non-self aware comment. Also it's the toxic dumpster fire that Twitter has become. But hey, whatever strokes the ol confirmation bias. The fact that I didn't get some of the references was part of the charm of the show to me. References were always part of the humor and if you have to make every reference understandable to everyone, you have to be so general it gets boring. For example, if you reference a movie it pretty much has to be something like Star Wars. Many younger people don't watch tv or movies older than 5 or 10 years old so many classics that everyone would have heard of in the 1990s like Gone With the Wind, The Wizard of Oz, A Christmas Story or a Christmas Carol will draw a blank stare from younger people. The reverse is also true. Fans who watched the CC episodes in their original run are mostly in their 40's or older. I post on sports sites and I've stopped counting the number of people who've said, I've heard the name Taylor Swift but I know nothing about her at all.
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Post by starschwar on Feb 20, 2024 19:31:30 GMT -5
My gripes with recent seasons (all three of which I enjoy overall) have little to do with the writing of the riffing. It took Jonah and company longer to get into a comfortable rhythm than would be ideal, but they got there eventually. The sight gags in Season 11 (and 12?) were a lot of fun. It's the host segments, Emily's bot voices and other stuff but we've been over that many times.
A thought did occur to me about the revival era, though.
11 / The Return: Multiple celebrity cameos, plus a general flaunting of "look what we can do with all this money!" that differentiated the season from all that came before it. 12 / The Gauntlet: Designed for binge watching. 13 / The Gizmoplex: Live debut chat stuff, three hosts, two sets of 'bot voices, and something vaguely resembling a story arc.
All of the new seasons have more or less been anchored to gimmicks in one form or another. There hasn't been normal, no-frills MST3K season in the 21st century yet, and maybe that's part of the disconnect?
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Post by kidflash on Feb 20, 2024 21:33:27 GMT -5
I would honestly put that at the feet of Joel, if asked for a snap judgment.
You said it yourself: Season 11 was LOOK AT ALL THIS MONEY! and as others have said, he probably looked at the money raised and thought he'd be able to indulge whims he never thought he'd be able to dulge.
As far as S12 and S13 go, there was presumably a thought process of modernizing the show and keeping up with the times instead of a 'back to basics' approach because there was still a ton of money raised.
In Joel's eyes, the audience liked what they were doing now, so why go back to The Old Way?
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Post by floatinginspace82 on Feb 25, 2024 9:55:36 GMT -5
Has anyone noticed that after the the campaign failed like it did, they started showing MST3K on a never ending live stream called MST3K Forever? every time I get on Youtube its always on my recommended. I checked it out just now and they are showing Girl with Gold Boots (one of my guilty pleasure episodes) it makes me wonder if they did this as an apology or "OK WE GET IT YOU LIKE THE OG SHOW LEAVE US ALONE" type of feeling, as I am typing I'm peeking in on the live stream comments and most seem to be riffing right along in their own way, and that's how it should be.
I've been a fan for so long and absorbed the show so much that its made me a riffing machine when watching movies/tv like, I'll be with friends who are also fans of MST3K and we'll be watching a random movie and its almost instantly that I can think of something funny to say and I'll usually get a laugh or a groan depending.
so while I get that there are OG fans that enjoyed the Reboot (totally fine) I don't understand the the need to defend it so passionately. I understand that people did put time and effort into the show but the effort was not great (at least for season 12 and 13) and while everyone is entitled to their opinion, it feels like people are grasping onto the newer seasons because they simply want more not better.
It will be interesting to say the least to see what they come up with this year if they do at all. this year marks 35 years of the show being around, if shout factory was smart (maybe they are doing this already) they should be making a dvd/blu-ray package of fan favorite episodes in a tin like the other anniversary editions and for bonus materials should have a sit down with all of the people involved, (yes I know certain people on the show have heavy dislikes with one another) or something just as a gesture of goodwill and I would like everyone from all walks of mst3k fandom to get along and find some kind of common ground if at all possible.
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Season 13.
Feb 26, 2024 17:25:37 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by intonyeon on Feb 26, 2024 17:25:37 GMT -5
They probably should just burn the entire franchise into a bonfire and admit it’s mediocre since 1991
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Post by BoB3K on Feb 27, 2024 0:58:13 GMT -5
Peaked at First Spaceship on Venus?
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Season 13.
Feb 27, 2024 14:54:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Diet Kolos on Feb 27, 2024 14:54:44 GMT -5
No, it obviously peaked at everyone's favorite episode, the quintessential MST, the one everyone always says is their favorite, you know the one I'm talking about. The one, the only: 305-Stranded in Space
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Post by floatinginspace82 on Feb 28, 2024 18:39:12 GMT -5
No, it obviously peaked at everyone's favorite episode, the quintessential MST, the one everyone always says is their favorite, you know the one I'm talking about. The one, the only: 305-Stranded in Space my fav number 1 top episode of all time is Horror of Party Beach, if we are talking quintessential it ticks all the boxes. In all seriousness though I kind of feel like it ended when it should have, sure there were probably more movies they could have done but really I feel by the time season 10 came around that the facade was starting to crack and you can tell that the riffing, while great became more bitter more pointed and didn't seem like they were having fun anymore. when seasons 9 and 10 were knocked down to 13 episodes like the first 2 seasons it just felt like the favorites from those seasons were few and far between. and to keep it reeled back into season 13 discussion, Munchie was really only my fav of that season the rest were decent to middling at best.
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Post by tomtom7 on Mar 5, 2024 20:27:36 GMT -5
The crowd funding model was not something that could be maintained unless there was a huge rise in viewership. I am a business analyst and sustaining an average contribution of $150 plus is not feasible. It would continue to deteriorate over time. Apparently, there are not enough new subscribers to makeup the difference. In business, this type of decline in one year would be followed by a user satisfaction survey asking for feedback. So, yes, it is appropriate to address the 800 lb. gorilla in the room. That gorilla would be that their was dissatisfaction as to what was delivered in this current season. Since each person who pledged to Season 13 received at least two emails about the new kickstarter, it shows that the writers/actors strike had nothing to with the low response as some people have surmised. If anything, the strike should have had a positive influence because there is less competition out there for your viewing dollar.
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