|
Post by Udvarnoky on Aug 21, 2004 9:43:05 GMT -5
Okay, don’t talk about negotiating anything as far as MST3K is concerned either. We’ve establish pretty well that there is a $hitload of episode they could release for free. I have know idea what I'm talking about when it comes to this kind of stuff, but is releasing even a PR episode just a snap, as many of you seem to imply? I mean, they have to negotiate with more than just BBI here. Again, I don't really have understanding of these procedures, but you seem to be impying that releasing all of those episodes in the PR list is an overnight thing. Also, South Park is animated, yes, and it is indeed a quarter of what a MST3K episode is, but they released more than 4 eps per disc and that’s the point. Okay, fine. Let's say that all of Rhino's 4-disc collection were two discs instead, with two eps per disc. What the hell is the difference? You think they'd lower the price? 'Cause I don't. I really don't see where the whole "they can fit more on a disc" argument is supposed to be going. It doesn't change the amount of eps they release. Of course, he forgets to mention that they did a similar transfer to a live action, semi-obscure Kubrick film. Warner Bros. is a monumentally huge DVD studio compared to Rhino, and Barry Lyndon's source is FILM, not analog tape as MST3K, and it was painstakingly restored and then digitally remastered. Barry Lyndon may be one of Kubrick's lesser-known films, but it still had a big budget for its time and thus looks better. I could easily see other companies taking an interest in MST3K. Shout! Factory is one that we’ve talked about many times. Well, when Shout! Factory somehow gets license to distribute MST3K I'm sure all of your dreams will comes true.
|
|
|
Post by Phantom Engineer on Aug 21, 2004 10:05:01 GMT -5
I doubt public Domain always solves everything. Gozilla is a good example. The films are PD but the name is copyrighted. A PD film may contain copyrighted music that has to be negotiated. These things are not always as simple as we might think. Copyright is complicated and layered.
|
|
|
Post by vanhagar3000 on Aug 21, 2004 12:33:25 GMT -5
I'm going to get back to a point I made earlier on another thread concerning DVD quality. It's easy to blame Rhino, and why not but doesn't BBI take any responsibility in checking them before release. Which brings up the question just who is BBI. Possibly just Jim Mallon? I would think someone who worked on a show for that long would take some pride in it and insist on giving them a look before release. I know I would. BBI (Mallon?) owns the rights to MST so it seems they (he?) would have the right to OK them before release. I'm just speculating but it doesn't seem like Rhino could just do what they wanted without some input from BBI. So if you take the opinion that Rhino doesn't care, then maybe Mallon doesn't either. How ever owns the show is Mallon & Hodgson and Hodgson only owned the shows he appeared on (sans 1001) maybe he sold his share off t Mallon so maybe Mallon is sole owner.
|
|
|
Post by Phantom Engineer on Aug 21, 2004 12:39:51 GMT -5
How ever owns the show is Mallon & Hodgson and Hodgson only owned the shows he appeared on (sans 1001) maybe he sold his share off t Mallon so maybe Mallon is sole owner. What? Check your grammar and post when you're sober please.
|
|
|
Post by vanhagar3000 on Aug 21, 2004 12:40:51 GMT -5
I have know idea what I'm talking about when it comes to this kind of stuff, but is releasing even a PR episode just a snap, as many of you seem to imply? I mean, they have to negotiate with more than just BBI here. Again, I don't really have understanding of these procedures, but you seem to be impying that releasing all of those episodes in the PR list is an overnight thing. Of course there are somethings, like phantom said. But that list is HUGE, there must be at least 50 movies that they could release. Okay, fine. Let's say that all of Rhino's 4-disc collection were two discs instead, with two eps per disc. What the hell is the difference? You think they'd lower the price? 'Cause I don't. I really don't see where the whole "they can fit more on a disc" argument is supposed to be going. It doesn't change the amount of eps they release. Is a box set 4 times more expensive than a single disc release? My point exactly. Warner Bros. is a monumentally huge DVD studio compared to Rhino, and Barry Lyndon's source is FILM, not analog tape as MST3K, and it was painstakingly restored and then digitally remastered. Barry Lyndon may be one of Kubrick's lesser-known films, but it still had a big budget for its time and thus looks better. Well, when Shout! Factory somehow gets license to distribute MST3K I'm sure all of your dreams will comes true. You know what, maybe it would. Because Shout! Factory seems like a much more competetant distributor than Rhino has been or will be.
|
|
|
Post by mightyjack on Aug 21, 2004 17:47:49 GMT -5
I'm going to get back to a point I made earlier on another thread concerning DVD quality. It's easy to blame Rhino, and why not but doesn't BBI take any responsibility in checking them before release. Which brings up the question just who is BBI. Possibly just Jim Mallon? I would think someone who worked on a show for that long would take some pride in it and insist on giving them a look before release. I know I would. BBI (Mallon?) owns the rights to MST so it seems they (he?) would have the right to OK them before release. I'm just speculating but it doesn't seem like Rhino could just do what they wanted without some input from BBI. So if you take the opinion that Rhino doesn't care, then maybe Mallon doesn't either. Great minds think alike. I made a similar point on another thread as well. I wonder about the mechanics of it all. Who decides what? How was the contract written with Rhino? What responsibility does CC and Sci-Fi have in terms of quality, what I mean is. In some early MST eps, they had them color the seats in this greenish hue. Where's the line of responsibility? Does Mallon review the proposed release? In the contract with Rhino, does he have any say in the final product. (For example: Did he see Merlin before it hit the presses?) Does he review the masters they send (since Rhino had to request another copy, I'd say no) Going back to Sledge Hammer. I've heard (But not seen) that there are old VHS releases that were terrible. In the DVD releases the shows creator seems a lot more involved. He did commentary, did an interview on an extra, seemed very happy that they were able to lose the laugh track. Something happened between the VHS and DVD releases (under a different company). The creator expressed that he was much happier with the new disc versions. It makes me wonder just how much power a creator has (Obviously he had little or no say in the VHS releases)
|
|
|
Post by Udvarnoky on Aug 21, 2004 19:06:14 GMT -5
How ever owns the show is Mallon & Hodgson and Hodgson only owned the shows he appeared on (sans 1001) maybe he sold his share off t Mallon so maybe Mallon is sole owner. Joel owns nothing. All the episodes belong to BBI, which is made up of Jim Mallon and like two other people. So yeah, Mallon pretty much owns everything. Of course there are somethings, like phantom said. But that list is HUGE, there must be at least 50 movies that they could release. Uh, so how does that change the "somethings"? Is a box set 4 times more expensive than a single disc release? My point exactly. I know what you're thinking, but Rhino would probably still keep it as expensive. I'd think they'd charge the same per episode. You know what, maybe it would. Because Shout! Factory seems like a much more competetant distributor than Rhino has been or will be. Maybe, but what I was getting at is that it's probably not possible for Shout! to pick up the series. We don't know the terms of the contract between BBI and Rhino. It could be for a certain period of time (to be renewed), it could be forever, it could be until whenever BBI or Rhino feels like ending it, it could be until both companies agree to sever ties, a mixture of some of the above, etc. And you're also assuming that BBI feels the same way as you do about Rhino. Maybe they think Rhino's great. You know, I don't think BBI chose Rhino to be MST3K's distrubtor just for the hell of it; they probably made the best deal for them.
|
|
|
Post by Udvarnoky on Aug 21, 2004 19:08:17 GMT -5
Oops, I should have read MJ's post before rambling off about contracts. Yes, I think it would be very helpful to know how the agreement between BBI and Rhino works. It would help us all understand a lot. Perhaps we should contact BBI?
|
|
|
Post by vanhagar3000 on Aug 21, 2004 19:21:47 GMT -5
Joel owns nothing. All the episodes belong to BBI, which is made up of Jim Mallon and like two other people. So yeah, Mallon pretty much owns everything. Joel was Executive Producer of the show, I shouldn't say he owns it, but he definately must have made quite a hefty amount of money on it (assuming he hasn't sold his share to Mallon). Plus he is the creator of the show and gets risiduals.
|
|
|
Post by vanhagar3000 on Aug 21, 2004 19:28:39 GMT -5
Uh, so how does that change the "somethings"? I don't get what you saying. I know what you're thinking, but Rhino would probably still keep it as expensive. I'd think they'd charge the same per episode. Well, yeah, the current, 4 episode releasing Rhino would keep it expensive but we were talking about Rhino in a hypothetical sense. Maybe, but what I was getting at is that it's probably not possible for Shout! to pick up the series. We don't know the terms of the contract between BBI and Rhino. It could be for a certain period of time (to be renewed), it could be forever, it could be until whenever BBI or Rhino feels like ending it, it could be until both companies agree to sever ties, a mixture of some of the above, etc. And you're also assuming that BBI feels the same way as you do about Rhino. Maybe they think Rhino's great. You know, I don't think BBI chose Rhino to be MST3K's distrubtor just for the hell of it; they probably made the best deal for them. Agreed, but when the deal was made it was a COMPLETELY different market in 1996. I'm sure they've renewed it in the mean time, but maybe to change distributors would have many complications (like Rhino would have the sole distribution rights to Manos and other movies that were on MST3K), so BBI is trapped in a way.
|
|
|
Post by Udvarnoky on Aug 21, 2004 20:14:23 GMT -5
Joel was Executive Producer of the show, I shouldn't say he owns it, but he definately must have made quite a hefty amount of money on it (assuming he hasn't sold his share to Mallon). Plus he is the creator of the show and gets risiduals. He may have made money off of it...while he was on it. I don't think he owned it at all afterward. Also he only "created" the show in terms of having the idea for the concept. I don't think he actually owns the show, at least after leaving BBI. I think it was Mallon and Kevin who actually made the show happen (given the situation at the time of KTMA, they were the only ones who had the power to do so). So no, I don't think he's making any money off the show.
|
|
|
Post by Udvarnoky on Aug 21, 2004 20:17:19 GMT -5
I don't get what you saying. I was saying that the amount of PD episodes has nothing to do with how complicated they are to be released. Agreed, but when the deal was made it was a COMPLETELY different market in 1996. I'm sure they've renewed it in the mean time, but maybe to change distributors would have many complications (like Rhino would have the sole distribution rights to Manos and other movies that were on MST3K), so BBI is trapped in a way. They may or may not be trapped. The point is we don't know, and I have serious doubts that another company could in the future, if ever, "pick up" MST3K from Rhino in terms of distribution.
|
|
|
Post by vanhagar3000 on Aug 21, 2004 21:53:03 GMT -5
I was saying that the amount of PD episodes has nothing to do with how complicated they are to be released. Yes, I admit some of them would be complicated to release but the great deal of them probably don't have music/score still copyrighted or names still trademarked. Most of these films came into the public domain because their owners either A) Never copyrighted them in the first place B) Didn't renew their copyright on the 28th year I think in many cases it's unlikely that they wouldn't bother to copyright the movie and then renew the copyright for the music, trademarks and other stuff anyway. In the case of Godzilla, the name is trademarked because it has other entities in it. They may or may not be trapped. The point is we don't know, and I have serious doubts that another company could in the future, if ever, "pick up" MST3K from Rhino in terms of distribution. No, but it's just a dream, but I'm saying if they weren't Shout! Factory could have done a better job.
|
|
|
Post by Udvarnoky on Aug 22, 2004 9:25:20 GMT -5
Yes, I admit some of them would be complicated to release but the great deal of them probably don't have music/score still copyrighted or names still trademarked. Most of these films came into the public domain because their owners either A) Never copyrighted them in the first place B) Didn't renew their copyright on the 28th year I think in many cases it's unlikely that they wouldn't bother to copyright the movie and then renew the copyright for the music, trademarks and other stuff anyway. In the case of Godzilla, the name is trademarked because it has other entities in it. Again, I really don't know the details to stuff like this, but it's possible that it could get very complicated. You bring up good points. No, but it's just a dream, but I'm saying if they weren't Shout! Factory could have done a better job. Possibly, but I still don't think Shout! would have made its packages as extras-heavy as some of the other shows you've compared MST3k to. After all, the reason Freaks & Geeks and SCTV DVDs were awesome was because of cast/crew participation. What do we have with MST3K? A company made up of three people? Mike Kevin, Trace, etc. are not part of BBI anymore, and although they could certainly be involved with extras, they wouldn't be as hands-on about the material nor would they have any real access to anything. In other words, the limit of their participation would probably be interviews.
|
|
|
Post by Phantom Engineer on Aug 22, 2004 9:31:31 GMT -5
Mike Kevin, Trace, etc. are not part of BBI anymore, and although they could certainly be involved with extras, they wouldn't be as hands-on about the material nor would they have any real access to anything. In other words, the limit of their participation would probably be interviews. Which would be fine. The Mike/Kevin interview was really good. I'd like to see more of that.
|
|