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Post by LetGoOfItSlappy on Dec 16, 2005 16:38:37 GMT -5
Thank You.......we seem to forget that we are allowed to disagree in this country. Just because I, as a conservative, do not agree with a liberal does NOT make me a racist, homophobe, hate mongering bigot (all of which I have been called for simply advancing a point of view). And just because someone who is more liberal than I does not make them an unpatriotic Godless heathen.
This country was built on differences, disagreements then compromising to the best of the abilities of the people in charge....anymore though...can you say VITRIOL
it's a shame
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Post by LetGoOfItSlappy on Dec 16, 2005 16:57:30 GMT -5
Ya know...come to think it....we MiSTies should be in charge. Here is a simple version of a day in the US Govt with Fans of the show in charge:
Left: Wrong, Wrong, Wrong...it should be this way
Right: NOOOOOOOOO...it should be this way
......much discussion....finally
Moderator (pick your favorite): After listening to everybody...how about this way?
Left/Right: Cool.....Let's go watch Space Mutiny (or insert your favorite ep here)
Problem solved, the world is a better place...and I know not everybody consider themselves either left or right...I was merely illustrating a point
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Post by Cleolanta on Dec 16, 2005 18:35:48 GMT -5
Ya know, I've _often_ felt that the world would be a better place if more easy-going smart-arse types such as me and my friends (both in real life and on the 'net) were in charge. I mean, we could hardly do a WORSE job than what's being done right now. Also, every time I play "Civilization" my civ tends to flourish, have lots of nice things around, many cities, and happy people with low crime and corruption rates, so I _know_ I'd be a good leader!
...kidding, of course. :P But seriously. I do kind of wonder how some of our actual leaders would play that game...in terms of, how do they deal with the citizens' concerns and do they concentrate more on war or peace...and then _see how long they last_ with their chosen strategy, BWAHAHA!
But I'm getting off the topic. All I have to say about this right now is: Mummi, the way you did the Christmas thingie at your school sounds about exactly _right_, to me. I have no problems at all with hearing about the religious parts of the holiday's background. As long as _other religions are included too_. I, for one, would've found that presentation very interesting. I love learning about other religions and cultures.
And to everybody, may I say...Merry Christmas--if that's okay. ;)
...Notorious
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Post by Da Worm Fizzle on Dec 16, 2005 21:16:27 GMT -5
Hmmmm. I don't see the point of this discussion. We're all on the same side here. At most people are apathetic about the whole situation. People either don't care what they tell people, or are told by people, or they are pro Christmas. So again, I ask, who are these people who are so offended by the existence of Christmas? Who is it that the companies are so afraid of offending?
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Post by BCZF on Dec 16, 2005 21:32:54 GMT -5
This talk of boycotting stores is BS, the reason for a "holiday sale" and not a specific "chrstmas sale" is $$$ you want to appear as open and acepting to the most amount of people, so they can remove as much green paper from your wallet as possible..
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Dec 17, 2005 13:58:53 GMT -5
Maybe next year I'll make gifts instead of buying 'em.
So, when you get my banged up spice rack frame with the still drying glue, remember....
'Tis the season!
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Post by Da Worm Fizzle on Dec 17, 2005 21:07:32 GMT -5
Sign me up for a two-legged chair!
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Post by In_Stereo on Dec 17, 2005 23:08:01 GMT -5
CHRISTmas... Christ being the operative word. It's our holiday, can we celebrate it, please?
Here in the Democratic state of New Jersey, Queer Eye for the McGreevey Guy passed a law during his term banning any sort of religious celebration in public schools. No nativities. No menorahs. No Kwanzaaaaaaaaaa crap. This is my favourite... no Christmas carols! You can't sing "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" in a New Jersey public school (I swear, I'm not even exaggerating here; there was actually a court case over this recently).
My brother puts it the best: Christmas is the only federal holiday where you're not allowed to tell someone why they have the day off.
"Well, Happy Holidays!" "Holidays? What holiday do we have off for?" "Uh... you know... the 25th!" "What holiday is it on the 25th?" "Well... it's... Holiday! Yes! Holiday!"
There is no way in hell people would be getting off for the Festival of Lights (a very minor holiday in the Jewish calendar) or Kwanzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, which, if I may point out, has been around for less than half a century and was created by a liberal college professor who pieced together old African tribal traditions to come up with this totally fakey holiday that just so happened to fall around exactly the same time as Christmas. The Christian holiday is that the saviour of the world was born; the Jewish holiday is that they had enough oil. Think about it.
What people (especially Big Tony Romero and his ACLU goons) seem to forget is that it's freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. It's not establishing a religion to put a nativity scene in a public place any more than it is to display a menorah. The idea of a "wall of separation" between church and state is not anywhere in the constitution, but in a later writing of Tommy-Gun Jefferson's, where he was actually speaking against it! I don't know what people's deal is with Christianity, it's a very nice religion; it's all about how you're supposed to be nice to everyone.
Every year Christians have to fight to the death for the right to celebrate their holiday publicly, or at least to acknowledge what the holiday is. It's a disgustingly intolerant view that many of our elected officials try to impose on the nation at large, and it can't be allowed to continue. It just gets my blood pressure up. To quote Howard Beale, "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!"
Merry C*****mas all,
In In Stereo Stereo (R, MST3K)
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Dec 17, 2005 23:10:16 GMT -5
Every year Christians have to fight to the death for the right to celebrate their holiday publicly, or at least to acknowledge what the holiday is. Please elaborate so I can separate hyperbole from fact.
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Post by Da Worm Fizzle on Dec 17, 2005 23:41:40 GMT -5
Wow In Stereo, that was a very spirited and I'm sure well researched rant. But may I ask who it was against? I have to say, you used too much exaggeration to take many of your points seriously. There's nowhere in America where you're not allowed to wish people a Merry Christmas, nor is there a job where you can't tell people why they have time off, (although if they don't know already you might want to fire that person because he/she is not in touch with the real world). As for singing Christmas carols in school, unless you're a student I don't see why you would care. And even if you were a student you might be happy that you aren't forced to sing! I know I would be. I wouldn't worry too much about laws made the the government of your state, you might not be able to sing Christmas carols, but if I'm not mistaken you're also not allowed to pump your own gas. Here are some other interesting laws from Joisey: It is against the law to "frown" at a police officer. In Newark, it is illegal to sell ice cream after 6pm, unless the customer has a note from his doctor. It is illegal to slurp soup. In Trenton, it is illegal to throw a bad pickle in the street. Any couple making out inside a vehicle, and accidentally sounding the horn during their lustful act, may be taken to jail according to a Liberty Corner, New Jersey law.
I just love obscure and pointless laws. Anyway, getting back to your message. I agree with your point that Christianity is a nice religion because you're supposed to be nice to everyone. I'll just ignore all the times when that seemed to not be the case and many people were killed, tortured and exiled because Christians weren't nice to them. In fact I believe the point of every religion is to be nice to people, funny how people seem to forget that from time to time. I don't understand how making people give equal time to all the holidays this time of year is intolerant. It seems to me like some people are trying to make an effort, (though misguided it may be) to be more tolerant. In fact, your post seems to be rather intolerant of gays, non-christians, the government and the ACLU. That seems a little intolerant to me, and that's not nice. As for Kwanzaa, I wouldn't quibble over it being made up. So are Valentine's Day, Mother's Day, Father's day, and so on. And those "fakey holidays" were made up by card companies simply to give themselves more money. At least Kwanzaa was invented for a noble purpose, (more noble than getting paid at least). Hell if you want fakey consider that Jesus wasn't even born in December! The holiday existed before the birth of Christ. Christians just co-opted the date from Pagans. So if anybody has a right to get angry it's Pagans, Wiccans and such. The matter is that Christians aren't fighting to the death for anything every year, and if they are then they're fighting other Christians, because the other religions just don't give a damn.
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Dec 17, 2005 23:50:31 GMT -5
or Kwanzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, which, if I may point out, has been around for less than half a century and was created by a liberal college professor who pieced together old African tribal traditions to come up with this totally fakey holiday that just so happened to fall around exactly the same time as Christmas. No one ever suggested that it wasn't "made up." So what you've just said is equivalent to: "Martin Luther King, Jr. Day didn't happen before there was a Martin Luther King, Jr.!!!!!!!!!!" That's another one I'd like you to spell out for me. Does it apply less to people who disagree with you? Especially those liberals... I've been waiting for you to show up in this thread so I could prove once again without a doubt that I am your moral, intellectual, and sexual superior. Because, ya know, liberalism rocks and all. But Merry Christmas, anyway. You keep Christmas in your way, and I'll keep it in mine...
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Dec 18, 2005 0:29:13 GMT -5
"Christmas: The Real Story"...probably, not but still fun.And pretty cool...someone's comments on the site where I found the link: "those who believe shouldn't be using their holiday to attack others, either in the past or today. those who believe shouldn't really be indulging in activities explicitly contrary to Jesus' sayings, should they?"And did you know that there's now legislation to protect the "symbols of Christmas" from the invasions of political correctness? That's right...Christmas may soon get "special status" like gays and minorities! But of course, other religious symbols won't get the same protections. Repeat after me: failed and forgotten bill loses vote... And all this makes me remember some stuff from American History...I remember reading that in the original colonies, Christmas was often seen as far too decadent. I know that Massachusettes even had it outlawed for awhile. It came from the Puritans seeing it as an ungodly celebration. In fact, I don't think Washington or Adams actually celebrated it. I know for certain that when Cromwell took power in England, it was outlawed as something as evil as mass...and our colonists were part of the same Puritan movement. Have to do some research... Dear God, I have too much free time. I'm glad all my gluttinous shopping is done, and I've got my wife a nice set of diamonds raped from the mines of South Africa by exploited workers...combine that with the toys I bought my son that were made by children in sweat shops in 3rd world countries, and all's good. As long as I gave that Salvation Army guy $3, at least I can feel good about myself this Christmas. Thanks for saving my soul, God! I'll just go about my blissfully ignorant ways... How the paranoid contingent of the right sees America.
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Post by Cleolanta on Dec 18, 2005 2:23:29 GMT -5
(claps, long and loud, for TheFestivusFace's post.)
You pretty much said everything I would've said, so I don't have to. Except the stuff about the weird laws. By the way, have you ever played the game called "Dumb Laws"? It's fun.
Shutting up now...
...Notorious
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Post by Da Worm Fizzle on Dec 18, 2005 5:26:18 GMT -5
Why thank you Cleo. And well done mummi!
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Post by Da Worm Fizzle on Dec 18, 2005 5:44:27 GMT -5
Wow, that story about the real story of Christmas really gives one pause to think.
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