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Post by Diet Kolos on Nov 26, 2023 14:44:04 GMT -5
I can't wait until they come back in 2 to 6 months with (hopefully) a bunch of changes that everyone has been clamoring for, and the Positive Vibes Only crowd will endlessly fawn over Joel for making all of these wise decisions that they've currently been deriding everyone about asking for.
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Post by kidflash on Nov 26, 2023 14:46:50 GMT -5
If they just came out and said they were editing down every movie to 70 minutes to make a 90 minute show (with host segments and endless credits) in order to have the potential for it to fit easily into a streaming or network timeslot, I'd be a lot less salty about the editing. See, I don't mind the bumpers. I tend to think they're silly and kind of necessary for future cable broadcasts. (I also thought we'd see new episodes on basic cable by now, so what do I know?) The Rifftrax editing feels kinda weird, I always use the example of lopping out 30 minutes of Kill and Kill Again so that the 100m movie tops out at 70m. I'm sure there are others.
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Post by kracker on Nov 26, 2023 15:19:14 GMT -5
I have to say, I'm surprised that they bothered putting out that message. Although, it really is an obligation as I'm still not convinced the majority of people understand how these pledge and pay if it succeeds campaigns work, and they needed to state explicitly that no one would get charged anything. I'm not sure where they go from here, because this campaign has brought out a new twist -- there apprently really are hardcore NuMST3K fans. I just plain didn't like the newest crew, but I could have given Emily a chance if it weren't for unwatchable Crow, but there were fans out there that were specifically pissed that Jonah was getting replaced. Really? I actually liked Jonah a good bit (thought Crow was pretty good, was lukewarm on Tom), but he did like half a CC era season. Who cares. ... But wait, there's now apparently people that will be up in arms if Emily and muppet-crow don't come back. Joel has made a complete mess of all this. Bottom line, I'm not sure how they even see the 18K backers they got from this one come back next time. Why surprised? Its literally the least they can do. and costs no money and effort to put out a statement. that majority of people includes people here, seeing how many people here were so sure of themselves that Joel was just going to take the money and run a ping assuring you guys he wasn't currently halfway to Vegas was rather necessary. Yeah, in the end, expanding the cast was a bad idea that didn't yield the results of making the show any better, whether she did a good job or not, it was too much with the limited capacity that were working with. Btw given that there's people up in arms over Emily already, it doesn't really matter. They could just cut Emily (they can always bring her back anytime after all) for the good of the show and they're not going to have any more outrage fans than just keeping her on. The 18K and then some will be back given they don't make the same bad decisions. i still maintain the big killer of this campaign was expanding the budget so much with no real explanation instead of finding ways to streamline. It didn't matter how many cartwheels he had the cast doing or how many updates he put out. That unobtainable goal was just demoralizing. On these fundraisers, easier goals yields more backers wanting to get in on the deal
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Post by Diet Kolos on Nov 26, 2023 15:27:39 GMT -5
i still maintain the big killer of this campaign was expanding the budget so much with no real explanation instead of finding ways to streamline. It didn't matter how many cartwheels he had the cast doing or how many updates he put out. That unobtainable goal was just demoralizing. On these fundraisers, easier goals yields more backers wanting to get in a on the deal I think this was a very big factor, yes. If they'd funded something at the 2-2.3 million mark, people would've piled in to collect something that was at that point GUARANTEED. And it wouldn't have looked so bleak to get to 3-4 million for more.
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Post by BoB3K on Nov 26, 2023 15:38:43 GMT -5
Right, not just expanding goals, but eliminating a bottom goal. Both the other two campaigns had a $2M goal. Even after all us naysayers knocking them, they did raise enough to have closed either of the last two KS.
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Post by Troy's Dad on Nov 26, 2023 15:39:39 GMT -5
I’ve said this before on the forums, but I’ll say it again: in recent years Joel has been very coy with who exactly is hosting, whether it be live tours or seasons of the show. That’s a big turn off for me because when I’m opting in for a season 14 but he’s not telling me which host I’m giving them money for, I’m less enthused to back any more than the minimum to see the shows. The Time Bubble Tour, for example, was coy about Emily hosting and I’ll bet a lot of people thought they’d see Jonah. For season 13 I was actually disappointed Jonah wasn’t the full season host. Emily is fine and Joel has the nostalgia factor, but I wanted mostly Jonah because for me that’s the era we’re in. So basically, season 14 set me up for the expectation of an all Emily season because they were not up front with who the cast was.
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Post by intonyeon on Nov 26, 2023 15:43:42 GMT -5
Emily’s crow is literally the best one since Trace
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Post by kracker on Nov 26, 2023 15:53:23 GMT -5
Right, not just expanding goals, but eliminating a bottom goal. Both the other two campaigns had a $2M goal. Even after all us naysayers knocking them, they did raise enough to have closed either of the last two KS. Given how people here reacted to the idea of Joel taking the money and making 3 episodes, the bottom goal didnt matter at all. I wasn't seeing people clamoring for them to just take the money and making the 3 episodes. Im glad they eliminated the bottom goal. If im not getting at least 6 episodes, id very much rather have nothing. Not to mention, the idea of having to get the writers, actors, and production crew, just to make 3 episodes.
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Post by starschwar on Nov 26, 2023 17:08:22 GMT -5
I'm glad that Joel isn't throwing in the towel yet. I hope that the next attempt will have some serious re-evaluation. And ideally, can have a clear-cut explanation of where the money's going, what the show is going to be with regards to cast and crew, etc. The mention of seeking out new partnerships is the biggest shot in the arm MST3K needs. Now that it's clear that fans can't (unconditionally) bankroll the show every time, we might get some movement towards improving the various shortcomings on both the creative and financial levels of how the show has been made. More MST3K is always a good thing. But more -and better- MST3K - now we're talking.
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Post by floatinginspace82 on Nov 26, 2023 17:12:00 GMT -5
A more consistent, polished, stripped down Season 11 would be KILLER. Give me 13 episodes of Cry Wilderness, Avalanche, Beast of Hollow Mountain & Land That Time Forgot (but streamlined and the rough edges sanded out) and you'd have a very happy fanbase. Season 13 was halfway there, but poor, boring riff writing and bad production on-the-whole felt like they took a big step backwards. And they didn't seem to understand that. I notice you mention Avalanche as part of your faves of The Return but I had a hard time with that one, I know a lot of people love it but it was hard for me to sit through. On the other hand I like the Carnival Magic lol, maybe something is wrong with me.
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 26, 2023 17:17:38 GMT -5
Joel 'threw in the towel' before the campaign launched.
The joel led era is over IMO.
He left the door open for matt and others to pick up the pieces with his letter. Hopefully Matt gets the hosts and main bots in front of the camera for the next one. Joel can't be bothered and Matt is incapable of hyping/selling a new season by himself.
I still think the company is bankrupt though. Matt can turn the lights off on the way out and hopefully he can get a job with the next company Shout partners with.
Or maybe Shout will get off their asses and pump money into Gizmonic arts in exchange for more business/creative control on future seasons (I doubt that would be a bad thing).
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 26, 2023 17:20:22 GMT -5
A more consistent, polished, stripped down Season 11 would be KILLER. Give me 13 episodes of Cry Wilderness, Avalanche, Beast of Hollow Mountain & Land That Time Forgot (but streamlined and the rough edges sanded out) and you'd have a very happy fanbase. Season 13 was halfway there, but poor, boring riff writing and bad production on-the-whole felt like they took a big step backwards. And they didn't seem to understand that. I notice you mention Avalanche as part of your faves of The Return but I had a hard time with that one, I know a lot of people love it but it was hard for me to sit through. On the other hand I like the Carnival Magic lol, maybe something is wrong with me. carnival magic was awesome.. avalanche had great riffs but was one of the worst offenders for rapid fire riffing. Not a great rewatch experience.
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Post by floatinginspace82 on Nov 26, 2023 17:48:07 GMT -5
Emily’s crow is literally the best one since Trace
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 26, 2023 18:05:29 GMT -5
Oct 31, 2023 14:55:22 GMT -5 dudehitscar said:
best case scenario in my mind is this crowdfund effort fails and they pivot to the rifftrax live show model. small ask crowdfund for movie rights for a handful of shows every year, perform live in front of an audience, tape and broadcast to theaters, and release for sale.
-----------------
still hoping for this.
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Post by bjohnson on Nov 26, 2023 18:14:17 GMT -5
I'm not as big on the revamped stuff personally. That said it is a shame to see season 14 didn't work out. Far as I can say.... Probably just have to throw in the towel now. Maybe Joel might be able to find another miracle, but it's clearly not happening right now. There's still enough in MST3K for 18K fans to pledge over 2.5 million. If 18K fans would be willing to plop, say, $6 a month (current Shudder price) to a streaming service because MST3K was added, that would be $1.3M in revenue per year. Obviously this is a *way* over-simplified calculation of potential revenue. But the point is... this is not nothing. It's probably not profitable at all with the current budget of MST3K... but still. Joel tried to go at it first with a Netflix sized budget, then all by himself for one season. This is some of what the Reddit folks screaming "television is expensive!" don't get. Sure, it's expensive... especially if you try and do everything by yourself like Joel and company did. It didn't work out this time. But this type of show is one which I think has a lot of "cost saving opportunities". You could pair with a partner with a deep movie library (reducing licensing costs). You could pair with a partner that has a studio already, so you don't need some of the expense of cameras, editing gear, etc. You also don't necessarily need pricey Hollywood talent and some of the pizzazz the Netflix seasons had. So... it's possible, if the scope is reduced to... well, more like what it was in the beginning. The fact that Joel indicated the Kickstarter opened some possible partnership opportunities is a "good sign" to me.
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