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Post by bjohnson on Nov 26, 2023 18:36:58 GMT -5
If they just came out and said they were editing down every movie to 70 minutes to make a 90 minute show (with host segments and endless credits) in order to have the potential for it to fit easily into a streaming or network timeslot, I'd be a lot less salty about the editing. Since Rifftrax streams on streaming networks with "time slots" like Pluto, I wouldn't be surprised if at least *some* of the editing is to make the film more "Pluto friendly" etc. Though I remember the Mads saying something like 70 minutes was a good limit for comedy, I also wouldn't be surprised if there is a little of "future proofing" as well (not to mention they have their roughly 2 hour podcast format established). MST3K has *always* been edited for time (sometimes glaringly so, e.g. Mitchell) so it's never bothered me personally. *shrug*
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Post by intonyeon on Nov 26, 2023 18:41:09 GMT -5
Emily’s crow is literally the best one since Trace
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Post by kracker on Nov 26, 2023 18:41:32 GMT -5
Oct 31, 2023 14:55:22 GMT -5 dudehitscar said: best case scenario in my mind is this crowdfund effort fails and they pivot to the rifftrax live show model. small ask crowdfund for movie rights for a handful of shows every year, perform live in front of an audience, tape and broadcast to theaters, and release for sale. ----------------- still hoping for this. Eww why. We want MST3K, not just more Rifftrax stuff. Rifftrax already has plenty of Rifftrax stuff. We dont need another Rifftrax.
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 26, 2023 18:42:45 GMT -5
I'm not as big on the revamped stuff personally. That said it is a shame to see season 14 didn't work out. Far as I can say.... Probably just have to throw in the towel now. Maybe Joel might be able to find another miracle, but it's clearly not happening right now. There's still enough in MST3K for 18K fans to pledge over 2.5 million. If 18K fans would be willing to plop, say, $6 a month (current Shudder price) to a streaming service because MST3K was added, that would be $1.3M in revenue per year. Obviously this is a *way* over-simplified calculation of potential revenue. But the point is... this is not nothing. It's probably not profitable at all with the current budget of MST3K... but still. Joel tried to go at it first with a Netflix sized budget, then all by himself for one season. This is some of what the Reddit folks screaming "television is expensive!" don't get. Sure, it's expensive... especially if you try and do everything by yourself like Joel and company did. It didn't work out this time. But this type of show is one which I think has a lot of "cost saving opportunities". You could pair with a partner with a deep movie library (reducing licensing costs). You could pair with a partner that has a studio already, so you don't need some of the expense of cameras, editing gear, etc. You also don't necessarily need pricey Hollywood talent and some of the pizzazz the Netflix seasons had. So... it's possible, if the scope is reduced to... well, more like what it was in the beginning. The fact that Joel indicated the Kickstarter opened some possible partnership opportunities is a "good sign" to me. did someone say partner with deep movie library?
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Post by Jenni_S25 on Nov 26, 2023 19:10:15 GMT -5
They need someone (more than one, really) that knows how to run a company. They’re good at show production, I’ll give them that, even though it costs vast sums of cash. But they think they can, and should, do everything on their own. Your partial owner, Shout, who has experience with show distribution and item shipping, might be able to help with that, right? Nah. Let’s spend a third of what we raise on a new streaming platform *and* a quirky virtual theater that only works in browsers. And then let’s put all the backers thank-you plaques in there, too! Because independence!
Then oh hey, those rewards we promised, they’re here. Wait, Shout knows about getting stuff out to people, and would have some recommendation about who they use for that, right? Nah. Biff and Sally’s Fly-By-Night Warehouse and Shipping Company says they can do it "real cheap and fast." Two months later, now, uh-oh, people are getting antsy. Hey Biff, how’s it coming along over there? "Still calculating shipping costs! (<snickering aside to Sully> charge ‘em another month’s warehousing rent!)"
Well, looks like BIff and Sully aren’t working out. We’d better find someone else to get those rewards to our loyal backers. Let’s move it all to another warehouse ($), have a new company figure out how much the bill is for moving, packaging, and shipping to each person is ($), and charge it to the loyal backers. Don’t worry, we can tell them it was all out of our control, they’ll always be there with more money. Yay, we did it all ourselves! High fives! Independence!
Say, we’re running a little low on funds here, after all this really cost more than we thought. We’d better start ramping up another fundraiser. Call Kickstarter? Nah. This little outfit over here charges less, and we’ll be the biggest money they’ve ever seen, so maybe they’ll do us favors, too! Yes, let’s start planning another media blitz! Independence!
Whoa, we’re out of money. What?? Yeah, look, we can’t make payables or payroll next month. OMG, start the fundraiser now! Right, how much should we ask for? Um, 2… no, wait, 3.7 million, we need the Boneheads back, and we have two crews and all, no wait, 4.8 million, we gotta do it here and fly everyone in. Start the media blitz! Put the press releases on the wire! Can’t, we have no money. Well, then, make the show reel with all the cast telling the loyal backers that we need them again! Can’t, they’re on strike. Well, then, tell the loyal backers to spread the word! Um, okay, but some of them are pretty miffed about that shipping bill for $174 they received. Well, then, we’ll do some live shows on that Gizmoplex we have, good thing we’ve been giving away all our old stuff for free there and not earning any money, it keeps the loyal backers interested! Who do we have for those? Well, Joel, Matt, and some writers. That’s it?? How can this be?? We have our independence, we did this all ourselves!
Really, this is how I’ve been picturing all of this. I’d still like to see new MST3K, I’ve been watching since we stumbled across this weird thing on the TV after Thanksgiving, said "what the heck is this," and then started laughing when we heard what they were saying. Oh, there have been highs and lows, no doubt, but I’ve always gotten some laughs each time, and helped me forget some hard times for two hours or so.
But with no one to ever say "no," "hey wait," or "that’s just plain nuts," this will just continue. They’ll keep playing "We’re a Big Independent Company!" while saying, look, we really need a few more million dollars right now, it’d be a shame if something happened to that show you like.
Me, cynical? Maybe just a bit.
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 26, 2023 19:28:11 GMT -5
Oct 31, 2023 14:55:22 GMT -5 dudehitscar said: best case scenario in my mind is this crowdfund effort fails and they pivot to the rifftrax live show model. small ask crowdfund for movie rights for a handful of shows every year, perform live in front of an audience, tape and broadcast to theaters, and release for sale. ----------------- still hoping for this. Eww why. We want MST3K, not just more Rifftrax stuff. Rifftrax already has plenty of Rifftrax stuff. We dont need another Rifftrax. The MST3K live shows were the highlight of the revival era. I want that but done the rifftrax way meaning performed in front of live audience, broadcast to theaters, recorded and released shortly after... all with extreme cheap kickstarters that have easy to meet goals and build hype and fun. Joel has previously said he wanted to make the live shows into episodes cause they already did the writing (riffs/sketches) and all the prop making.. that saves costs too. do a small ask kickstarter every year for a handful of live shows spread out from summer to December. Cheap, sustainable, and the 'experiments' will add up quickly. plus Rifftrax and the mads will be gone soon enough. They are all getting up there in age and winding down operations.
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 26, 2023 19:30:45 GMT -5
They need someone (more than one, really) that knows how to run a company. They’re good at show production, I’ll give them that, even though it costs vast sums of cash. But they think they can, and should, do everything on their own. Your partial owner, Shout, who has experience with show distribution and item shipping, might be able to help with that, right? Nah. Let’s spend a third of what we raise on a new streaming platform *and* a quirky virtual theater that only works in browsers. And then let’s put all the backers thank-you plaques in there, too! Because independence! Then oh hey, those rewards we promised, they’re here. Wait, Shout knows about getting stuff out to people, and would have some recommendation about who they use for that, right? Nah. Biff and Sally’s Fly-By-Night Warehouse and Shipping Company says they can do it "real cheap and fast." Two months later, now, uh-oh, people are getting antsy. Hey Biff, how’s it coming along over there? "Still calculating shipping costs! (<snickering aside to Sully> charge ‘em another month’s warehousing rent!)" Well, looks like BIff and Sully aren’t working out. We’d better find someone else to get those rewards to our loyal backers. Let’s move it all to another warehouse ($), have a new company figure out how much the bill is for moving, packaging, and shipping to each person is ($), and charge it to the loyal backers. Don’t worry, we can tell them it was all out of our control, they’ll always be there with more money. Yay, we did it all ourselves! High fives! Independence! Say, we’re running a little low on funds here, after all this really cost more than we thought. We’d better start ramping up another fundraiser. Call Kickstarter? Nah. This little outfit over here charges less, and we’ll be the biggest money they’ve ever seen, so maybe they’ll do us favors, too! Yes, let’s start planning another media blitz! Independence! Whoa, we’re out of money. What?? Yeah, look, we can’t make payables or payroll next month. OMG, start the fundraiser now! Right, how much should we ask for? Um, 2… no, wait, 3.7 million, we need the Boneheads back, and we have two crews and all, no wait, 4.8 million, we gotta do it here and fly everyone in. Start the media blitz! Put the press releases on the wire! Can’t, we have no money. Well, then, make the show reel with all the cast telling the loyal backers that we need them again! Can’t, they’re on strike. Well, then, tell the loyal backers to spread the word! Um, okay, but some of them are pretty miffed about that shipping bill for $174 they received. Well, then, we’ll do some live shows on that Gizmoplex we have, good thing we’ve been giving away all our old stuff for free there and not earning any money, it keeps the loyal backers interested! Who do we have for those? Well, Joel, Matt, and some writers. That’s it?? How can this be?? We have our independence, we did this all ourselves! Really, this is how I’ve been picturing all of this. I’d still like to see new MST3K, I’ve been watching since we stumbled across this weird thing on the TV after Thanksgiving, said "what the heck is this," and then started laughing when we heard what they were saying. Oh, there have been highs and lows, no doubt, but I’ve always gotten some laughs each time, and helped me forget some hard times for two hours or so. But with no one to ever say "no," "hey wait," or "that’s just plain nuts," this will just continue. They’ll keep playing "We’re a Big Independent Company!" while saying, look, we really need a few more million dollars right now, it’d be a shame if something happened to that show you like. Me, cynical? Maybe just a bit. --------------------------------------- to add to this... after the insane sound issues from last season (to which they needed a lot of fan help to even identify) tells me they aren't that good at production given they have multimillion dollar budgets.
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Post by dudehitscar on Nov 26, 2023 19:38:11 GMT -5
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Post by Jenni_S25 on Nov 26, 2023 19:41:22 GMT -5
to add to this... after the insane sound issues from last season (to which they needed a lot of fan help to even identify) tells me they aren't that good at production given they have multimillion dollar budgets. Good point, I’d forgotten the live premieres’ fun with sound. I’m with you too on the live shows, I’ve been to the last three, and they were a blast! We had such a good time at all of them, and I’d love to see them back,
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Post by floatinginspace82 on Nov 26, 2023 20:33:06 GMT -5
wow.. I feel like years have been taken off my life after reading all that lol, its a cluster of NO YOU and dumbness all around.
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Post by missionpanic on Nov 26, 2023 22:11:35 GMT -5
I think this started with someone posting a Emily cast photo and saying it was "woke" and I have bad news for them about the classic show's writing staff.
Anyway. I was just thinking about the s13 shorts, did they only stream in the Gizmoplex? I only saw 6 but they were great and might have played well on Youtube and the cursed TikTok.
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Post by dc41 on Nov 26, 2023 22:52:51 GMT -5
I think this started with someone posting a Emily cast photo and saying it was "woke" and I have bad news for them about the classic show's writing staff. Anyway. I was just thinking about the s13 shorts, did they only stream in the Gizmoplex? I only saw 6 but they were great and might have played well on Youtube and the cursed TikTok. Pretty sure they were only in the Gizmoplex. But this brings up some of the earlier points, like why weren’t they leveraging that content? Some of the smaller rewards could have been to download the shorts for the campaign (Rifftrax likes to throw shorts in as add ins). Run them between episodes during the marathon… Posting them on YouTube is a great idea, or packaging several with new wraparounds for FAST streaming would be an idea too. I know everyone loves the full episodes, but I believe the old Shorts compilations videos were some of the strongest sellers by Rhino back in the day. I see a lot of people saying there’s criticism or reacting to criticism of Emily, but I haven’t *seen* any of it (I’m here, lurk on the Discussion page and the Reddit - I have seen a lot about the her team’s Crow voice but nothing about Emily). I really liked Emily this season, and particularly liked her on some of the streams- I thought she had a lot of the best zingers. I have seen, and I have said myself, comments about the challenge with the multiple teams with the limited number of releases making it difficult to get into a flow and develop chemistry among the performers. I was saying it in reference to the Jonah crew, but the same is true both ways - how much rapport can Emily’s team develop in four shows? It just takes time to develop. While we love the characters of Tom and Crow and concept, the chemistry is essential. The original has enough of a pedigree to prove the value of the chemistry between the riffers (heck, it’s why MKB continue to do Rifftrax and the rapport between Mary Jo and Bridget is a highlight of their tracks but it’s a different relationship and sets them apart from MKB). I would have been happy had either host done the six episodes for Season 14. It’s tough, I like Jonah and I know he’s thrilled to be hosting this as a dream come true but I don’t know that he’s had a fair chance to put his voice on the show. Emily obviously only had a few opportunities, but I was incredibly impressed and felt was the strongest performer of her cast (perhaps of all the SOL crews in S13). I wasn’t thrilled with the possibility of switching off (kinda thought it would just be Emily to be honest).
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Post by Troy's Dad on Nov 27, 2023 11:04:30 GMT -5
Some more campaign thoughts that have been rattling around my head over the weekend:
It was a mistake to lead with the movie announcements and keep any mention of cast to interviews, it was also a mistake to not put those interview reveals on blast in email updates. Also, email updates should have been every other day and daily in the last few days leading up to the end. They needed both video and written versions of the updates, blasting them out on socials as well as the email lists.
Also, as I've said, they needed to break it up into 3, 6, 9 and 12 episode funding tiers.
We were investing in a new season, so I do not think keeping the overarching plot and cast under wraps was a smart idea. They don't need to spoil everything, but why not say something like "Following the events of Season 13, Jonah, Emily and Joel were sent back to Earth 1991! Season 14 promises between three and twelve brand new episodes featuring hosts Jonah and Emily as they and the bots try to escape the past and riff some movies and shorts along the way!"
Also, I think it is about time for a twist. I've long wanted to see Joel in the role of the mad, and I think Joel stepping down from riffing and the time travel plot they are hinting at would make for a really fun shake up for the formula.
Lastly, I would really really like to see Mike involved in some way. Even if it is just a cameo of Mike Nelson from Rifftrax who is a totally different person from Mike Nelson of MST3K. I like dumb meta jokes.
As for the physical media, I think they should hold on making it a part of the campaign because a $65 ask for three episodes on blu-ray/DVD is a ripoff. But 12 episodes for $65 is honestly also a ripoff, but in the direction of Joel and the team and Shout Studios. Instead they should make the physical set be an online exclusive to MST3K's shop and Shout, and have the retail price be based on the episode count. Between $35 and $80 depending on the amount of episodes we end up getting.
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Post by BoB3K on Nov 27, 2023 12:56:58 GMT -5
Pessimistic guess theory: We saw EVERYTHING they had. Lot's of us have put forward the guess that they are flat broke. There is probably no one on a paid staff anymore. That's why there was no word from Ivan and Lesley. Anyone we saw doing anything for it--Matt, a few writers-- were doing it for free.
Any tangible stuff we saw was also all they had. They announced a bunch of movies that were owned by Shout or PD. That shirt artwork that was black and white. That's all there is, a black and white sketch done by someone long ago. It could be why there's only old designs Tom, Crow and Gypsy on it. Joel just pulled it out of the zillions of overpriced pre-poduction work he had done back in Season 11.
Only one video? They literally had nothing else shot, and it seems like that was shot weeks/months? ago. They had one video, and they spliced it up into TDay bumpers.
It's why the gizmoplex is down, but the vimeo front is still open--it's probably being propped up by Shout.
I think the next time we see anything new from MST3K, it will be as part of a partnership they've started with someone. Someone who has some money.
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Post by missionpanic on Nov 27, 2023 14:28:30 GMT -5
They definitely need a guy like Ivan in the mix next time - if Shout seriously won't even fund *that* then I don't know where to go. It's all going to come down to partnerships because it sounds like Shout isn't interested unless they don't have to pay anything. I think they probably checked out after the Netflix cancellation.
I'm still confused about Crowdfundr, because I know you get more of a cut and can do things like change the budget, but I can't imagine it being so significant that it was worth the cost. Also as was mentioned on the official board, they seem to have very few real campaigns running. I hope Joel avoids this sort of stuff in the future when working with partners/other platforms.
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