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Post by allhailtheriff on Oct 8, 2008 7:17:55 GMT -5
Hey all. This one of the few riffing boards I've never surfed and what a discussion we have going! I'm not trying to start any flame wars either, but I have to get in my two cents (don't we all?) First off, ICWXP hasn't been around for more than about 8 months and they've released only two things. Don't know where you've gotten your info, Pepper, but you're obviously not a fan so no worries. Second, the whole "ICWXP should be sued" thing is old hat to say the least, and rather pointless to even get into anymore because they're not going to be (and endlessly riffing on their self-admittedly silly name is pretty ineffective in showing you have an unbiased opinion I should consider). Mike endorses them fully ("These guys are great, fast paced, funny riffing, now please stop making my job look easy"), and I'm sure Mallon has seen it and knows there's no case, and there really isn't. Even if there were, they're a bunch of broke musicians and they're probably making a thousandth of what Rifftrax and CT are making. Mallon would be more likely to go after CT, there's some money in that franchise. ICWXP charges next to nothing for a full DVD package (full case, inserts, and sometimes stickers) as well. I think that's awesome and I'm happy to pay. Let me make another side note, that WHILE MST3K was ON AIR, fan videos were released that were actually freakin' called MST3K, had replica puppets and even called their host "Mike". I don't know if they were charging for them then, but you have to pay SOMEONE to see them on DVD now - and that is a much bigger rip off than ICWXP could ever be called, and no legal action has been taken. If instead of 50 science-like crime investigation dramas on TV, there were 50 riffing shows, the point would be even more moot. It's the same thing. It's like saying "CSI" has rights to sue "Bones" just because they came first. And MST3K is dead and gone anyway from a broadcast or new episode stand point, so why get mad about it? Also, let me reference their opening statement on their online preview of Episode 1 - "We're just some MSTies having some fun, please keep the hatemail to a sensible minimum". They knew there would be closed mindedness and obviously don't care a single lick. The show is self-admittedly a clone (they even make little nods to it in their bits), one made out of love, out of missing MST3K. It's like MST3K on purpose. The wit of the writers is razor sharp and if they wanted to make a whole other riffing premise, they could have. But instead, some funny guys got together, put TONS and TONS of hard work in, and decided to give hardcore MST3K fanboys like me more FULL episodes, and I love them for it. It's riffing with reason again, and I have more to look forward to in an hour and 45 min. ICWXP release than I do with skit-less Rifftrax (that said, let me say I LOVE Rifftrax anyway) I have the crazy bots back, I have a shadow-roma that I like back, and I laugh just as hard watching ICWXP as I do watching Seasons 5 - 7 and maybe 8 of MST3K. Finally, let me point out the amazingly interactive relationship ICWXP has with its fans. They made some major tweaks to the show based on our reactions (I can't say I see CT doing that), and they even play voicemails like MST3K did back in the KTMA days and script out huge bits based on them. They send out free Bloopers DVDs to their Fan Club Members (which had 200+ members last July) and I got a free signed copy of Episode 2. They've got my vote, and I have friends that only know about MST3K, CT, and Rifftrax now BECAUSE of ICWXP. Now enough about ICWXP! Let me go on record as saying I think Rifftrax is hilarious but is sometimes hit or miss with me (gotten a few that really didn't do a thing for me). As for Cinematic Tantic, I think they are extremely witty to say the very least, but I'm sad to say I find it almost devoid of laugh out loud humor and the deliveries have no life in them. But I like edgy, fast, in your face and harsh riffing, and CT is all about subtlety and obscure references. JUST my opinion, and if you love CT, awesome! Please support them and buy their DVDs! Best wishes!
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Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 8, 2008 7:33:30 GMT -5
First off, ICWXP hasn't been around for more than about 8 months and they've released only two things. Don't know where you've gotten your info, Pepper, but you're obviously not a fan so no worries. 8 months or so is still being around for a while. Especially in light of the idea presented was that this was a brand new deal with one release.... and you say you they have 2 releases? Bride of the Gorilla, Lady Frankenstein, Bloody Pit of Horror, Werewolf in the Girls Dormitory - I count 4 there.
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Post by allhailtheriff on Oct 8, 2008 7:38:34 GMT -5
First off, ICWXP hasn't been around for more than about 8 months and they've released only two things. Don't know where you've gotten your info, Pepper, but you're obviously not a fan so no worries. 8 months or so is still being around for a while. Especially in light of the the idea presented was that this was a brand new deal with one release.... and you say you they have 2 releases? Bride of the Gorilla, Lady Frankenstein, Bloody Pit of Horror, Werewolf in the Girls Dormitory - I count 4 there. Okay, fair enough, we just have different definitions of "being around awhile". Bride of the Gorilla and Lady Frankenstein are the only ones they're released yet. They let us know what's coming far in advance.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 8, 2008 7:49:49 GMT -5
8 months or so is still being around for a while. Especially in light of the the idea presented was that this was a brand new deal with one release.... and you say you they have 2 releases? Bride of the Gorilla, Lady Frankenstein, Bloody Pit of Horror, Werewolf in the Girls Dormitory - I count 4 there. Okay, fair enough, we just have different definitions of "being around awhile". Bride of the Gorilla and Lady Frankenstein are the only ones they're released yet. They let us know what's coming far in advance. They must, they even have the "buy now" buttons on their Myspace page ready and waiting.
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Post by allhailtheriff on Oct 8, 2008 7:52:21 GMT -5
Okay, fair enough, we just have different definitions of "being around awhile". Bride of the Gorilla and Lady Frankenstein are the only ones they're released yet. They let us know what's coming far in advance. They must, they even have the "buy now" buttons on their Myspace page ready and waiting. Yep! And cool board persona with Pepper. ;D
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Post by MonsterX on Oct 8, 2008 8:52:21 GMT -5
So I got this idea for a movie where there these people on an Island but they’re really clones (but zomg they don’t know it!) and every once and a while one of them wins a lottery and gets to leave the island, but what really happens if that their organs get harvested.
Of course that’s the plot to Parts: the Clonus Horror and it was also the same damn plot to The Island, which ripped it off and they got sued.
Same principal here. It’s a rip off act. It doesn’t matter how hard they worked, it doesn’t matter how much they’re in contact with their fan base. Like I’ve said, I’ll change my opinion the second they drop the whole guy trapped in a theater forced to watch movies by a mad scientist with the help of his robot friends blah blah blah. I’ll even buy a full episode to give em a chance.
EDIT – Ok, I’ve put a little more thought into this. If allhailtheriff wasn’t a big fan of those other guys he wouldn’t have taken the time to make an account over here just to defend them. I’m a fan of my preferred program so I also feel as though I need to defend it.
Just because I don’t like something doesn’t mean that it sucks; it’s all a matter of opinion and it’s ok for everyone to disagree. Even if I do think that other show is a cheap rip off I don’t have to watch it and it doesn’t mean that other people out there won’t enjoy it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and just because I don’t like something it doesn’t mean I should lash out at those who do.
There. Now I can go find another topic to be cantankerous about.
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Post by BoB3K on Oct 8, 2008 11:50:25 GMT -5
Pepper, when I said 1 episode, I was referring to the number that I had seen.
allhailtheriff, great post. Thanks.
WolfMonsterX, I was mostly refuting your claim that they should be sued. I really do see where you're coming from. Like I said, if it were 10 or more like 15 years ago when MST3K was in their prime and about to make a movie and these guys came out with ICWXP, I really think I would have reacted EXACTLY as you have. But it's not. And honestly, I'm sort of disappointed in our MST3K alumni that they are all back riffing and yet none of them are doing something like ICWXP is. I definitely can see how people would not like ICWXPs humor, but I do think they are clever, funny people in their own style. I actually think that in some important ways, they are not as harsh riffers as MST3K season 9 and 10. Yeah, they have some blue humor, but MST3K has always had blue humor. What they haven't done and I hope they don't is the mean-spirited humor of the last couple of seasons of MST3K, where Mike and the bots would just start laying in to the actual movie and its stars: "This movie sucks!" "Screw you movie" "Your a fat, idiot, Joe Don Baker!" Not funny at all in my book.
Anyway, this thread has kinda morphed from a discussion on CT to ICWXP. That's okay. It was interesting, either way. And, it kind of makes sense. Finding ICWXP on RiffTrax really opened my eyes to how disappointed I was with CT. It's what I was hoping CT would have been. I'm not really saying it's what CT should have been. I think Joel and Co. are happy with what they're doing, and good for them. It's just not what I as a life-long MST3K fan was hoping for.
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Post by MonsterX on Oct 8, 2008 13:04:31 GMT -5
I should have been more specific; when I wrote sued I was thinking “cease and desist” in my head.
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Post by braindeadzombie on Oct 8, 2008 14:15:54 GMT -5
Anyway, this thread has kinda morphed from a discussion on CT to ICWXP. That's okay. It was interesting, either way. And, it kind of makes sense. Finding ICWXP on RiffTrax really opened my eyes to how disappointed I was with CT. It's what I was hoping CT would have been. I'm not really saying it's what CT should have been. I think Joel and Co. are happy with what they're doing, and good for them. It's just not what I as a life-long MST3K fan was hoping for. Too bad I missed most of the "debate". I checked out that ICWXP link and I was shocked, appalled, or disgusted by what I saw. Ok, I'm not quite sure yet how I should feel as this is the first time I've heard of them. It's not remotely like MST3k because the human is on the left and it's a balcony with two robots instead of a movie row with two robots, I see... Rude awakening: MST3k is dead, gone, buried, came back to life and than shot in the head for the good of the world. Yeah, I'm not much of a fan of the movie or the Sci-Fi episodes, what of it?. ICWXP {Internation Championship Wrestling XP?} is living in the past and living off the past like Rifftrax and CT. Big difference: They have nothing to do with MST3k except they are self proclaimed fans. Of money, I guess. Hey, they're just like Mike Nelson that way. Nice Rifftrax link there, Nelson... By the way, I find Nelson less and less funny with each passing sellout. His Rifftrax page is being crushed under its own capitalistic greed. CT is not MST3k. Well, D U H. Sorry, I couldn't think of anything else to say that would express the same sentiment in fewer letters. The CT crew's not even trying to make CT like MST3k. Double duh. I'm actually relieved that Hodgson didn't get the right to remake MST3k. You don't like CT. That's ok, I don't like Rifftrax and I find them almost impossible to rewatch. But I find the CT offerings to be extremely rewatchable and just right for me. As for I C With my XP, if it's posted free on youtube it's ok but since they're selling it, that's crossing the copyright line. Somebody, and I'm looking at Shout Factory, should do something.
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Post by BoB3K on Oct 8, 2008 14:54:39 GMT -5
Do any of you guys watch Conan O'Brian or Letterman or Jimmy Kimmel?
Or, do you all wish them to ROT IN HELL because they have EXACTLY coppied their format from The Tonight show originally starring Steve Allen*.
I mean come ON! -- There's a live studio audience, a host comes out, he does a monologue of some jokes, has the band play him over to his desk, does a skit, then brings out a guest or two and has them sit in chairs to the stage right of his desk, maybe another skit, and then a final guest, usually a musical guest. Obviously I'm describing The Tonight Show and anyone else that uses that format is a WEASEL-SCUM-RIP-OFF-JERK-FACED-JERK!!
Or maybe...only very few good forms of entertainment are thought up, and yet there is limitless potential to utilize those forms of entertainment, so most perfomers simply reuse an already proven format as the vehicle for their entertainment.
Of course all of that is a little more grandeur than what is going on here. As allhailtheriff said--MST3K is dead! We all thought that maybe there might have been a chance some day to revive it, but after recent events with Joel and Mallon, it is clear that there will NEVER be anymore. In that light, some old MST3K fans who obviously have some talent at writing and acting have created something new in homage of their old DEAD show.
You guys do know that these new episodes of ICWXP are not going to somehow destroy all the old copies of MST3K or anything. In other words, they're not a threat to the memory or library of MST3K. I still love MST3K, but it is also exciting to see new stuff coming out that is more than just riffing, it's a complete MST3K-like experience.
*I actually know very little of Steve Allen's run as the Tonight Show host, just that he was the first host. I also doubt that the Tonight show on NBC was the first late night talk show. I'm just using it as an example.
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Post by Mr. Atari on Oct 8, 2008 15:04:36 GMT -5
I also hadn't heard of ICWXP until this thread.
So I went to the link and watched a couple previews. I laughed a lot. Good riffs, energetic delivery, pretty funny. I'd probably be a fan if I had time for another hobby.
I will say that if it is an homage and not a rip-off, they could (should?) have changed more of the premise than they did. However, if none of the Brains have a problem with it, then I don't really care.
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Post by quinnmartin on Oct 8, 2008 15:21:15 GMT -5
Do any of you guys watch Conan O'Brian or Letterman or Jimmy Kimmel? Or, do you all wish them to ROT IN HELL because they have EXACTLY coppied their format from The Tonight show originally starring Steve Allen*. I mean come ON! -- There's a live studio audience, a host comes out, he does a monologue of some jokes, has the band play him over to his desk, does a skit, then brings out a guest or two and has them sit in chairs to the stage right of his desk, maybe another skit, and then a final guest, usually a musical guest. Obviously I'm describing The Tonight Show and anyone else that uses that format is a WEASEL-SCUM-RIP-OFF-JERK-FACED-JERK!! Actually, it's a bit different. All the similarities that those shows exhibit to each other and to Steve Allen's show are part of an established TV format. They're formulaic, sure, which tends to make them a bit lame, but the people you mentioned are not aping a particular show or a particular person's creation. Conan didn't structure his show that way because Steve Allen did, he structured his show that way because that's how mainstream late night talk shows do it. Whereas there's not really a standard tv format that revolves around a guy and two robot's being forced to watch bad movies by a mad scientest. All those things specifically reference a particular show. Doesn't mean they should be sued, unless they start calling the robots Crow and Tom and adopting the name MST4000 or something, but it certainly a knock against them. However witty and funny they may be, they're essentially the equivalent of a tribute band.
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Post by BoB3K on Oct 8, 2008 15:43:20 GMT -5
However witty and funny they may be, they're essentially the equivalent of a tribute band. That's actually a good way of putting it. Except, I only half agree. I agree that they will never be thought of as more than a "cover show" of MST3K which is really up to them as to wether they're okay with that or not. I disagree, though in the sense that a cover band simply goes out and plays another "real" bands songs, whereas ICWXP is creating all new riffs of never-before riffed movies--just using the same format. Very important distinction.
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Post by callipygias on Oct 8, 2008 15:44:27 GMT -5
with each passing sellout... His Rifftrax page is being crushed under its own capitalistic greed. This part of what you said expresses what I feel when I go to the Rifftrax page recently. There are apparently so many different writers working on so many different projects (most of them don't even include Mike) it seems like Mike is entering the Riff Emperor phase of his career.
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Post by quinnmartin on Oct 8, 2008 16:11:21 GMT -5
However witty and funny they may be, they're essentially the equivalent of a tribute band. That's actually a good way of putting it. Except, I only half agree. I agree that they will never be thought of as more than a "cover show" of MST3K which is really up to them as to wether they're okay with that or not. I disagree, though in the sense that a cover band simply goes out and plays another "real" bands songs, whereas ICWXP is creating all new riffs of never-before riffed movies--just using the same format. Very important distinction. Good point. Like any analogy it only goes so far. It's probably more more similar to MST3k = The Beatles & ICWXP = Oasis.
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