TomServo69
Moderator Emeritus 
Gone but not Forgotten
Nothing ever changes........
Posts: 5,467
|
Post by TomServo69 on Mar 13, 2004 16:33:25 GMT -5
You think I'm serious when I use the word "Geez"? Well, some people use that in a serious way. I use it when I'm frustrated and pissed off. But, oh yeah, evolution. Hmmm, let me think. Darwin. Yeah, that's the ticket. Servo |
|
yousonuva
Moderator Emeritus
I'm not insane but I am King of the Universe
Posts: 14,309
|
Post by yousonuva on Mar 13, 2004 16:33:51 GMT -5
When was it not? No, seriously, I was just joking with you. You get so serious, I find it funny. But, on the topic, I agree with Cherokee in wondering why there isn't a universal way of teaching it. To teach as theory at first and fact later is just plain confusing. Servo I think he was still joking. Or wait...are you joking about him being serious? Hehe no wait I'm just joking about you being serious about him joking. No wait I was serious about....I HATE YOU ALL! *slam the door* |
|
|
|
Post by Phantom Engineer on Mar 13, 2004 16:43:20 GMT -5
I think he was still joking. Or wait...are you joking about him being serious? Hehe no wait I'm just joking about you being serious about him joking. No wait I was serious about....I HATE YOU ALL! *slam the door* Oh no, look what we've done to yousonuva. Don't give up on us now! Live damnit, live! |
|
|
|
Post by nightfalcawk on Mar 13, 2004 16:45:43 GMT -5
You son of a !
|
|
yousonuva
Moderator Emeritus
I'm not insane but I am King of the Universe
Posts: 14,309
|
Post by yousonuva on Mar 13, 2004 16:45:59 GMT -5
Oh no, look what we've done to yousonuva. Don't give up on us now! Live damnit, live! (sniff) I'm..ok..(sniff)..can I just have some Dizzy Grizzlies? (sniff) |
|
|
|
Post by nightfalcawk on Mar 13, 2004 16:47:59 GMT -5
(sniff) I'm..ok..(sniff)..can I just have some Dizzy Grizzlies? (sniff) Well... NO! I want them! Here you can a Hamdinger. Or some spam. Or a Spamdinger. |
|
|
|
Post by Phantom Engineer on Mar 13, 2004 16:48:59 GMT -5
(sniff) I'm..ok..(sniff)..can I just have some Dizzy Grizzlies? (sniff) He's alive! Thank God (or evolution) |
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Atari on Mar 13, 2004 18:23:23 GMT -5
For the record, I didn't mention creationism.
In fact, that's a hard sell anywhere. Proving or disproving the existence of a creative force/being is probably more of a philosophical one than a scientific one anyway.
However, there are plenty of unexplainables about evolution. The second law of thermodynamics is one.
Another is the irreducible complexity problem. Evolution states that in order for an adaptation to be passed on to the next generation, it must be beneficial in some way. However, some functional processes, organs, and even cellular structures are made up of multiple pieces that are not beneficial without all of the other pieces.
For example, for a mousetrap to work, it requires the base, the metal "snapping" bar, and the spring. If it is missing any of these things, it doesn't work. And none of these things on their own is "beneficial" to the whole. A mousetrap is irreducibly complex.
If only part of an irreducibly complex structure is adapted, it would not be kept without the other parts of that structure. So in order for something like an eyeball to evolve, all of the necessary parts (rods and cones, retina, lens, iris, etc.) would need to evolve in the same generation for any of the pieces to stay. Rods and cones are unnecessary for anything in and of themselves, and therefore wouldn't be kept.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phantom Engineer on Mar 13, 2004 19:19:00 GMT -5
For the record, I didn't mention creationism. In fact, that's a hard sell anywhere. Proving or disproving the existence of a creative force/being is probably more of a philosophical one than a scientific one anyway. However, there are plenty of unexplainables about evolution. The second law of thermodynamics is one. Another is the irreducible complexity problem. Evolution states that in order for an adaptation to be passed on to the next generation, it must be beneficial in some way. However, some functional processes, organs, and even cellular structures are made up of multiple pieces that are not beneficial without all of the other pieces. For example, for a mousetrap to work, it requires the base, the metal "snapping" bar, and the spring. If it is missing any of these things, it doesn't work. And none of these things on their own is "beneficial" to the whole. A mousetrap is irreducibly complex. If only part of an irreducibly complex structure is adapted, it would not be kept without the other parts of that structure. So in order for something like an eyeball to evolve, all of the necessary parts (rods and cones, retina, lens, iris, etc.) would need to evolve in the same generation for any of the pieces to stay. Rods and cones are unnecessary for anything in and of themselves, and therefore wouldn't be kept. Ok fine. Have a nice day. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Atari on Mar 13, 2004 23:11:28 GMT -5
Ok fine. Have a nice day. Wait a minute. I came here for an argument! I paid for the full five minutes just then. |
|
|
|
Post by Mister Wilbur on Mar 14, 2004 10:03:53 GMT -5
Actually the Second Law of Thermodynamics doesn't contradict evolution. In order for something not to devolve into chaos there needs to be a constant input of energy. And where does Life get alot of it's energy from? The sun. But If the sun dies, entropy will take over and life will cease to exsist.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mister Wilbur on Mar 14, 2004 10:30:30 GMT -5
For the record, I didn't mention creationism. In fact, that's a hard sell anywhere. Proving or disproving the existence of a creative force/being is probably more of a philosophical one than a scientific one anyway. However, there are plenty of unexplainables about evolution. The second law of thermodynamics is one. Another is the irreducible complexity problem. Evolution states that in order for an adaptation to be passed on to the next generation, it must be beneficial in some way. However, some functional processes, organs, and even cellular structures are made up of multiple pieces that are not beneficial without all of the other pieces. For example, for a mousetrap to work, it requires the base, the metal "snapping" bar, and the spring. If it is missing any of these things, it doesn't work. And none of these things on their own is "beneficial" to the whole. A mousetrap is irreducibly complex. If only part of an irreducibly complex structure is adapted, it would not be kept without the other parts of that structure. So in order for something like an eyeball to evolve, all of the necessary parts (rods and cones, retina, lens, iris, etc.) would need to evolve in the same generation for any of the pieces to stay. Rods and cones are unnecessary for anything in and of themselves, and therefore wouldn't be kept. The Eye might have started out as a single light sensitive cell, and there probably hundreds if not thousands of intermediate steps inbetween. I'll use monkeys typing Hamlet as an example. In order for the monkeys to type the thirteen opening letters by chance it would take 26 to the power of thirteen trials for sucess This would longer than several lifetimes of our solar system. But if each correct letter is kept the process would go much faster. The same is true with the Eye, as the little light sensitive cell evolved to Modern day Eye. Nature would keep each part that works and take out the parts that don't. The Light sensitive cells (Rods and Cones) are the most important part of the Eye and if you don't have them, then you don't really have much of an Eye. The Iris is needed, it is there to control the amount of light that goes into the Eye. The Lens is there to focus the light. And the Cornea is needed to protect the other parts, and to keep the vitreous humor in. The Retina is where all the rods and cones sit. Each part of the Eye is important, without the other parts it wouldn't work. |
|
|
|
Post by Phantom Engineer on Mar 14, 2004 11:31:52 GMT -5
Actually the Second Law of Thermodynamics doesn't contradict evolution. In order for something not to devolve into chaos there needs to be a constant input of energy. And where does Life get alot of it's energy from? The sun. But If the sun dies, entropy will take over and life will cease to exsist. That's telling him Mr. W! |
|
yousonuva
Moderator Emeritus
I'm not insane but I am King of the Universe
Posts: 14,309
|
Post by yousonuva on Mar 14, 2004 11:34:50 GMT -5
That's telling him Mr. W! That's telling Mr. W to tell him, phantomengineer! dumbass. |
|
|
|
Post by Phantom Engineer on Mar 14, 2004 12:15:15 GMT -5
I have a new title. I couldn't be more proud. |
|
