troy
Anteater
Posts: 2
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Post by troy on Jul 13, 2020 6:22:57 GMT -5
Hey guys I am new here.
I had a short clip of from greatest movie every made in Canada "The Final Sacrifice" on YouTube. It featured Troy and Zap being chased by the bad guys in front of the general store. That store by the way happen to be in Water Valley, ALberta.
I got a copyright notice from Youtube that they were taking it down because of a complaint from Tjardus Greidanus. He was the writer/producer of the movie and is still making movies tday. All Zap Rowsdower/The Final Sacrifice clips have been removed. I would have assumed he sold the copyrights long ago. Very interesting!!! I wonder if he bought them back and if so is there a Final Sacrifice II or reboot in the works? Got my fingers crossed.
Just wanted to share a bit of MST3K trivia.
Troy
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Post by Diet Kolos on Jul 13, 2020 6:55:06 GMT -5
He's always maintained the copyright, but he soured on the MST version a few years ago. Pulled the licensing from Shout a few years ago. My understanding is he wants much, much more money.
Similar situation with Soultaker. There's some Doctor that produced it and holds the rights, withdrew them from Shout and now wants a whole chunk of change.
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troy
Anteater
Posts: 2
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Post by troy on Jul 13, 2020 8:46:51 GMT -5
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Post by foreign object on Jul 13, 2020 14:56:15 GMT -5
Some folks just never realize that WITHOUT MST3K, their film would die in obscurity instead of becoming a cult classic. Heck, I lived in Calgary when this film was made (filmed in southern Alberta using SAIT resources) and I'd never heard of this film until MST3k resurrected it.
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Post by Udvarnoky on Jul 13, 2020 20:45:52 GMT -5
Jordan Fields had indicated that Tjardus Greidanus was a hard case for a long time, and that Shout! had despaired of ever obtaining the license. Then, one day, when they approached him for the nth time, they were delighted to find that he had a change of heart -- and it is unknown what prompted it. After the end of what appears to have been a seven-year license (standard?), Shout! was unable to come to terms for a renewal. It's possible that Greidanus has reverted back to feeling resentment toward MST3K, but it could also simply be about money. From Shout!'s perspective, if the asking price for FINAL SACRIFICE is a good deal higher than the average quote, it might be hard to justify paying the ransom given that MSTies had seven years worth of opportunity to buy the episode.
It's the same deal with SOULTAKER. We don't know for sure the copyright owners are anti-MST3K. But if their asking price was exceptionally high, Shout! has to weigh the cost of cutting the check for round two against the likelihood that fans of the episode already bought it during the generous initial window it had been available.
Of course it sucks because in both cases we're talking about classic, gold standard episodes, but what can ya do. And hey, we know from experience that the world of MST3K licensing is full of wacky surprises and hairpin turns. You never know what might happen down the line.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 16, 2020 2:26:43 GMT -5
OH FFS! You know you can get youtube to put it back up? Do that by disputing the copyright as a "fair use" and check that box. Then point to the fact that other people were relying on your link to feature the menu of the DVDs that has NOTHING to do with that clown. My blogger link for that episode now has no link to the episode and that messes me up. Fair Use. It's there for a reason. I use copyrighted stuff on my channels all the time and if they try to pull and block the videos, I dispute the copyright owners and say 'hey this is fair use in the public domain'! And they can't do poopie. BTW here's my blogger link: mitternachtkino.blogspot.com/Scroll down the right side menu and you'll see the list of episodes to each boxed set. And here are just two of my channels full of copyrighted stuff: www.youtube.com/channel/UCgYO6Pl1_k8E53dcyzAvEwQwww.youtube.com/user/TheMuze12And you know what? That copyright clown cannot claim anything to do with MST3K, because the video you had up was from the MST episode!!! Which means that the picture AND sound are both altered and is not the original movie in and of itself! That's how these creeps are getting away with censorship because not enough people know how this stuff works! FAIR USE. It is a thing. And it's powerful. Ask yourself, what would Rowsdower do?
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Post by majorjoe23 on Jul 16, 2020 9:31:56 GMT -5
But MST3K wasn’t using Final Sacrifice under fair use. It was using the film because it licensed the film from the rights holders for a certain amount of time and under certain conditions. The fact that this was the MST3K version just means that either the Final Sacrifice guy OR Shout Factory could have made a claim.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 16, 2020 10:16:51 GMT -5
It doesn't matter. Fair use is real. And it wasn't Shout!
Trust me on this one. I might be invisible most of the time, but I am on top of things. I have...plans.
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Post by timmy on Jul 16, 2020 14:17:06 GMT -5
OH FFS! You know you can get youtube to put it back up? Do that by disputing the copyright as a "fair use" and check that box. Then point to the fact that other people were relying on your link to feature the menu of the DVDs that has NOTHING to do with that clown. My blogger link for that episode now has no link to the episode and that messes me up. Fair Use. It's there for a reason. I use copyrighted stuff on my channels all the time and if they try to pull and block the videos, I dispute the copyright owners and say 'hey this is fair use in the public domain'! And they can't do poopie. BTW here's my blogger link: mitternachtkino.blogspot.com/Scroll down the right side menu and you'll see the list of episodes to each boxed set. And here are just two of my channels full of copyrighted stuff: www.youtube.com/channel/UCgYO6Pl1_k8E53dcyzAvEwQwww.youtube.com/user/TheMuze12And you know what? That copyright clown cannot claim anything to do with MST3K, because the video you had up was from the MST episode!!! Which means that the picture AND sound are both altered and is not the original movie in and of itself! That's how these creeps are getting away with censorship because not enough people know how this stuff works! FAIR USE. It is a thing. And it's powerful. Ask yourself, what would Rowsdower do? you know what, that would just work (because its not like its the non MST3K version).
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Post by Diet Kolos on Jul 16, 2020 17:17:53 GMT -5
I recently had 213-Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster pulled mostly down off YouTube by Toho who not only claimed the movie but also most of host segments. I'm not sure if disputing fair use would get me anything other than a copyright strike with them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 19:54:59 GMT -5
I recently had 213-Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster pulled mostly down off YouTube by Toho who not only claimed the movie but also most of host segments. I'm not sure if disputing fair use would get me anything other than a copyright strike with them. Toho especially is a corporation I wouldn't challenge.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 16, 2020 20:21:19 GMT -5
I recently had 213-Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster pulled mostly down off YouTube by Toho who not only claimed the movie but also most of host segments. I'm not sure if disputing fair use would get me anything other than a copyright strike with them. Okay here's how it works, when you dispute a copyright in the instance you want your video put back up, that's all you're disputing is to be able to put it back up or the block taken off of it. You're not claiming to own the copyright. YT actually has a list of criteria for which you would dispute an action. It's only a strike if you dispute that you own the thing. So don't say you own that. But Fair Use can be for any number of things. When it comes to MST3K which is a popular TV series about all these movies that have already since been aired decades ago, the whole Fair Use for educational purposes comes into play since MST3K episodes can be featured as educational towards how TV shows last century were made. You can use any criteria within the fair use clause. You can also dispute it based on the fact it's the property of MST3K because it is altered, by the TV show producers and writers themselves. So that movie and sound therein have already been altered to that degree that it is NOT the original but a legitimate copy done on a TV show that featured it. A friend of mine, Rory Paige, had put the episode The Black Scorpion on his channel. Of course I sent him the file I ripped from my own DVD of it but he had the same deal where the copyright owners tried to have it blocked. He disputed it and told them it wasn't the original movie and it was uploaded by the Fair Use Act. YT took the block off and there the episode sits. Anyone can see it. He also uploaded a few other gems. Another friend, Loren Bopeppy, uploaded all the menus I ripped from my discs and sent to him. Of course nobody said anything because Dave Long who created the menus is a really cool guy and loves that we did all of this. And Shout Factory has never caused any grief over anyone featuring MST3K. It's a shame that very few people know that YT can put something back up if you dispute the blocking of a video from an old TV show. Or an old movie. Because you as the uploader, did have the right to feature something based on all the criteria that Fair Use permits.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 16, 2020 20:30:18 GMT -5
I recently had 213-Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster pulled mostly down off YouTube by Toho who not only claimed the movie but also most of host segments. I'm not sure if disputing fair use would get me anything other than a copyright strike with them. Toho especially is a corporation I wouldn't challenge. But you can challenge them. Fair Use is international and the worst that would happen is that it's blocked in the country where Toho sits. But YT is US based and Toho can go eat a bag of dickweeds.
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Post by travis on Jul 17, 2020 11:54:51 GMT -5
It boggles my mind when owners of these films start asking too much money. If Shout Factory can't meet their demands, than who will? Are any boutique Blu-ray labels planning a deluxe SOULTAKER or FINAL SACRIFICE release? Nope. Are either of them "cult classics"? Not really. They're best known now as MST3k fodder, which is a great way to give an otherwise worthless property a second life. Asking for too much money to renew is just pointless, because then their income stream for those titles is gone. Unless the owners pay to have their films scanned in HD and then try to sell them to streaming platforms, they're not going to be seen on TV or computer screens ever again.
It's a bit like the situation with the Russ Meyer estate. Apparently they were asking too much money when Vinegar Syndrome approached them about obtaining his library. So now you have a solitary website selling a DVD of FASTER PUSSYCAT, KILL, KILL! for $40. Look at all the potential income they're missing by shutting out actual home video labels.
At least SOULTAKE and FINAL SACRIFICE were in print for 7 years (better than GODZILLA VS. MEGALON got!), so there are plenty of circulating copies, but it's still a frustrating part of MST3k movie rights.
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Post by Ford Prefect on Jul 17, 2020 12:28:47 GMT -5
The deal for The Final Sacrifice is particularly strange because it isn't available on DVD, Rifftrax, and many other places, but it is still available on VHX and Google Play. I guess the contract was longer than seven years for those specific platforms.
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