Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Apr 6, 2021 15:25:37 GMT -5
A Kickstarter likely wouldn't fund a long term schedule like the one you're suggesting though. A Patreon would do a better job, but then again that would pend people being able to pay up monthly and consistently. And most shows that go homemade like MST used to are either podcasts or on YouTube. So unless Joel's plan is to start a YouTube channel...
But the devil in the details is likely Shout wants MST to blossom further, and Joel likes the cast he has. I wouldn't expect much to change, unless someone can't participate with the series anymore, I wouldn't expect any big casting shakeups.
But I do want MST to go weekly again. Disney+ proved that audiences still get involved in the weekly format and Shudder proved that the weekly format works better with movie shows.
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Post by Troy's Dad on Apr 6, 2021 15:30:59 GMT -5
If I can point out a positive, the project header shows the season 11 & 12 cast. A clear sign that whatever this is, at least they are maintaining the far more solid TV show cast as opposed to the touring cast from last year (who I actually enjoyed, heck today I am actually wearing the MST3K Live circus shirt). My fear was that Joel was moving on from Jonah and the mads, which was way too soon.
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Post by kidflash on Apr 6, 2021 15:36:03 GMT -5
Just spitballing here, but I think that taking the Rifftrax model of direct downloads (or disc-only episodes) is perhaps the best option?
You tried the biggest streamer and going to another one just means you're at their mercy, even if it's Shudder.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Apr 6, 2021 15:50:45 GMT -5
Well, here's an are for speculation. How much do you think they'll Kickstart this time? The first Kickstarter raised 5.76 million, plus 600k in add-ons. Anyone know how much the Season 12 pledge drive brought in?
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Post by Mighty Jack on Apr 6, 2021 15:59:19 GMT -5
I guess I should wait and see what is announced tomorrow before commenting.... Buuuut as I said elsewhere, I laughed more during the last live show than I did the whole of season 12. If there's a way to do what you did right on the live show, and translate that to a new season or whatever you've got planned, then do that. Take time with it, let it breathe (and slick, expensive production values don't generate laughs).
And yes, if it is a series, return to a weekly schedule (other streaming sites are going back to releasing things on a weekly basis and are finding success with that. They are discovering that it generates more excitement, conversations don't dry up after a week, the hype train builds up more steam. I read that "The Boys" experienced a boost when it went from a full season dump, to a weekly schedule for the second season. And while Disney considered releasing Wandavision all at once, they reconsidered, put out the first 2, then did the rest weekly, and it sounds like they are happy with the results).
I get why you filmed the MST revival the way you did, I get the logistics, but the bottom line is, it hurt the show, and I'm not sticking around for a repeat of season 12, which, while conceptually clever, was light on the laughs.
Hope the news is reassuring.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Apr 6, 2021 16:01:28 GMT -5
The pledge drive brought in about $450k, if I remember right (which I might not be). But that was an unnecessary "feel included" move with perks, so I don't know how seriously we should take that number.
It will most certainly be less than the previous Kickstarter. I'm meeting a lot of MSTies on Twitter who are still excited to donate, so I don't think it will be a disaster, but the battle cry now isn't as big as it was in 2015. I really hope Joel has his expectations adjusted accordingly.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Apr 6, 2021 16:05:03 GMT -5
I'd say 3.5 million, tops. Probably somewhere in the 2.5-3 million range. But I've been surprised before.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Apr 6, 2021 16:14:23 GMT -5
Holding onto the voting average to the previous Kickstarter and times it by the amount of people who bookmarked the new page so far (which is steadily going up), right now if all of those people donated the average, the basement is $1.3 million. That's a theoretical number though and has not really a valid prediction. We'll see how many people actually donate vs. whether or not the average diverges from the previous.
The amount of pledgers we had last time was around 50k. Right now bookmarks are at over 6k and rising.
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Post by PimPamPet on Apr 6, 2021 16:30:33 GMT -5
"The next chapter" sounds a bit vague. I'll wait and see what Joel has in mind before I decide to support this or pass on it. I did like seasons 11/12 (I was a backer six years ago and don't regret it one bit), but I do understand and agree with some of the criticism about it (particularly the theater segments not being "live"). Maybe they'll do some livestreams like the Mads are Back? I guess we'll find out tomorrow.
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Post by mylungswereaching on Apr 6, 2021 16:34:55 GMT -5
The Mads scenes can be filmed all at once. It's the theater scenes that needs to be practiced more. The timing just has to be there or it doesn't work. So I can see three different schedules.
1) The writers are full time working together. They write the mads scenes first and then the movie scenes over time. For the main writers, its a full time job.
2) The Mads scenes outside of the theater are filmed all at once. Felicia and Patton can fly in one time and film them all as quickly as possible on their schedule.
3) The theater scenes are filmed separately. They take somewhere around 3 to 5 days to film each rather than 3 to 5 hours like with season 11 and 12. So if we have a 12 episode season it would take 3 months or less.
If Jonah, Baron and Hampton are too busy, you would need to replace them. Tv is filmed differently now but how much of that is because half of the stuff on TV now is reality TV of one sort or another.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Apr 6, 2021 16:43:32 GMT -5
I will say, I'm seeing VERY little buzz on Twitter so far. Should probably wait until tomorrow to get a better reading on the buzz level, but so far it's pretty minimal.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Apr 6, 2021 17:06:59 GMT -5
The Mads scenes can be filmed all at once. It's the theater scenes that needs to be practiced more. The timing just has to be there or it doesn't work. So I can see three different schedules. 1) The writers are full time working together. They write the mads scenes first and then the movie scenes over time. For the main writers, its a full time job. 2) The Mads scenes outside of the theater are filmed all at once. Felicia and Patton can fly in one time and film them all as quickly as possible on their schedule. 3) The theater scenes are filmed separately. They take somewhere around 3 to 5 days to film each rather than 3 to 5 hours like with season 11 and 12. So if we have a 12 episode season it would take 3 months or less. If Jonah, Baron and Hampton are too busy, you would need to replace them. Tv is filmed differently now but how much of that is because half of the stuff on TV now is reality TV of one sort or another. The writing scenario your propose is also problematic, because writers in today's TV climate have to have their drafts in before production on seasons start, so they can book another job and pay bills. It's been that way for a while now (especially on streaming and cable), except for shows with extended schedules that play out over most of the year with over 20 episodes where full time writing staffs are probably preferable. These shows are on big networks like CBS. I've listen to Marc Bernardin talk about this process on the Fatman Beyond podcast. MST is not the only show that does this and they aren't going to change it to appease folks on a message board. Then production starts and they have all their actors on their set for a predetermined period of time so everyone can work around their other projects (when an actor drops out of something due to "scheduling conflicts," that means they just couldn't make the scenario work). This is were the host segments are filmed in MST's case. Then everyone leaves and the theater segment process begins with Jonah, Baron, Hampton, and the puppeteers. During season 11 they recorded riffs from Jonah, Baron, and Hampton separately. I don't know if that was due to scheduling conflicts, but they changed their tune on it. During season 12 they decided to record the trio together, the official reason was to "maintain the energy of the live shows." At any rate it was done with time codes and still separate from the puppeteers, and the riff is created a lot like a riff from Rifftrax is currently created. Then the puppeteers match their motions to the available audio of the riggers and the video from the film. This is the modern version of the format, whether we like it or not. And you also need to consider it's not also a scheduling point, it's also a payroll issue. If you keep the actors there every day, you need to pay them for their time. If production can get what they need from them more efficiently than the way the old show did it, then that's what they're going to do, that way they just have to pay the puppeteers and start on post. The ideal way from an artistic standpoint isn't always ideal for who is working on it. An auteur could spend all day setting up one shot of a sunset, but the overall bottom line most of the time is that they need to keep rolling all day and keep moving.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Apr 6, 2021 17:14:39 GMT -5
How is it more cost effective to have three people do 70+ minutes of studio recording time to record a whole riff plus employ 5-6 people to wear green screen suits and move puppets around to an audio recording, than it is to have three people sit in front of a theater screen and talk live. You're still paying the three main performers for the same time, but now you're getting rid of the useless green screen people. That's an artistic choice on Joel's part.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Apr 6, 2021 17:17:56 GMT -5
AND that's not even mentioning the post-production costs of adding in CGI robots moving around the screen later on AND doing the ADR work of laying in the audio track that the three guys recorded earlier. So that's at least another person in sound editing and another person that does CGI robots flying around that you have to pay.
Sorry, I don't buy that for a minute.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Apr 6, 2021 17:43:09 GMT -5
The extra pizazz is an artistic choice, but it has no bearing on their decision to record lines more efficiently. That's post-production.
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