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Post by Blurryeye on Apr 7, 2004 13:23:42 GMT -5
This is to Colemanfrancisfan2: I think I get what you're saying, and it's good that you are willing to have more male asses on TV, as long as there's a warning about it. But I doubt that most men hold that view. Maybe they do, I don't know. I wonder what the warning label would be? Warning: male ass about to appear onscreen! Caution: male butts ahead!
Of course, that would still be catering to the male viewpoint, warning heterosexual males that something they don't like is about to appear. That doesn't happen for anyone else, does it? Unless you count the "TV MA" type of labels that appear on TV screens to warn parents about the general content of the show.
As far as the buffalo shots go, I think the 'bot's reaction to them is very funny, and usually justified. It's perfectly natural for it to be unappealing to them. An unaroused male you-know-what really isn't attractive, at least not to me. And showing an aroused male you-know-what would be pretty startling and weird. But, really, it's just a body part, so all the fuss they make is a bit childish, you have to admit.
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Post by BobJohnson on Apr 7, 2004 13:26:30 GMT -5
Well, yousonuva, you described a very unattractive version of a man's ass, which plenty of guys have, but a woman could have such an ass, too. There is such a thing as male beauty, just look at Michelangelo's David. Baseball players and football players often have great butts. I have noticed that men are very squeamish and uncomfortable when a woman talks about checking out a guy's ass. The issue that MaryT brought up about inequal representation of attractive body parts on MTV is very real. The media obviously caters to the male viewpoint of titillation and sexual pleasure. Women are displayed as sexual objects all over the place, while male objectification is scarce in comparison. All of these things come down to the fact that Western culture is a male-dominated society where women's true sexuality is repressed while simultaneously their bodies are exploited. As soon as a woman says something like MaryT did, that there should be more objectification of men as long as women are being objectified, the general response of men is, "Hey, objectification is bad, it's not going to make the world a better place to objectify men more blatantly. If you women don't want yourselves to be objectified, then don't try to do the same thing." I find this extremely hypocritical. Men don't lift a finger to stop the objectification of women, yet they attack a woman for doing the same thing to men? Heterosexual males can enjoy the benefits of the mainstream catering to their viewpoint of sexuality, while at the same time playing the "objectification is bad" trump card whenever a woman tries to bring objectification of men into the mainstream. So any guy who uses this argument with me can shove it. Most men don't want to be put into a powerless position when it comes to sexuality. Having their asses checked out does exactly that, and it's the same for women. Because of it's location, the ass is a very vulnerable body part. You can't see it yourself most of the time, but other people can. Men would much rather have women look at their crotches, I'm guessing, than their asses, because what's down there is taken as a symbol of power to many men. Yes, look at my power stick, not my defenseless butt! And the fact is, most men aren't going to do anything to level the playing field when it comes to what's portrayed in mainstream entertainment as a desirable sexual being. If women want more male bodies objectified, they're going to have to make it happen themselves. But there's a reason why female bands who do that are "unknown and culty". It's still mostly men in control of mainstream media. It's going to be a long time before more male objectification is seen in mainstream entertainment. Like I've said, most men aren't going to do a thing to change it! I could also discuss the whole Janet Jackson breast exposure issue that Rowsdower eloquently wrote about in the SNL thread, but I'm not going to right now. You forget Blurry that it just comes natural to men to be the dominant figure in a relationship. It's genetics, not the way you were raised. This is coming from someone who was raised by 4 older sisters, and a single mom to boot. I too feel the dominance because it's just my nature, I am for Women's rights all the way though. When you take a Animal (us) and raise him out of his element, he can have serious problems. I can get the double standard a lot from my parents to how to get through life, that is really hard to live with when you got your mom saying "do it" and your dad saying "don't". That two job I get is not abnormal, my friends and many men like me get the same treatment. All I am saying is that it's tricky to raise a boy to a man, not saying that girls aren't but the man is the focal point in the relationship, most of the time.
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yousonuva
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Post by yousonuva on Apr 7, 2004 13:29:10 GMT -5
Haheh! Me, Bob and Coleman-man are really giving this "woman" a hard time. Haha, "woman" *moose nose*............uh-oh, I think she heard me, man....RUN FOR IT!.
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colemanfrancisfan
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Post by colemanfrancisfan on Apr 7, 2004 13:32:56 GMT -5
Lol, that's a good way to put it, blurryeye. I personally would very much appreciate it. I only hope that happens, I could turn to sports and news, which always appeal totally to my mind. And those TV MA always make me think there's going to be females included, and then I say I'm going to watch this for the possibility, and then they have dudes! Those labels are totally useless.
I think males would like that new system of gender warnings, for instance those on the other team would greatly appreciate the tip off. Of course, this is a totally sexist POV, isn't it? We may have to wait for a female president before it changes, which I do hope happens soon.
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Post by Blurryeye on Apr 7, 2004 13:45:02 GMT -5
Yousonuva, I think you thought I was directing my whole post at you specificially, so I just want to clarify that only the first paragraph is really addressed to you. Also any other man who can't understand why a woman would find a man's ass attractive. It's okay that you don't see anything really appealing in a man's ass. My point was, that there can be men's asses that are appealing, to women or whoever.
Also, everyone, understand that I am not trying to attack heterosexual men. I'm trying to point out the double standards, hypocrisy, and repression of women's power over their own sexual desire that is inherent in this male-dominated society. Just making guys aware of it can have some effect in changing it. However, in my cynical, pragmatic view, more women are going to have to be in real positions of authority in order for much change to occur. Which is up to us to accomplish. My message is, women need to be strong and work hard to get their desires and views paid attention to (did that make any sense?).
I am aware that men are naturally more dominant in relationships than women. I'm a little unclear on what you mean by the "double standard" and mixed messages you receive, Bob. Do you mean messages about whether or not to have sex, or what? Just curious.
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Post by marytrobot on Apr 7, 2004 13:49:59 GMT -5
there Blurryeye hit it on the nose. And also if the men get to have a warning about other men's asses why can't women have it about other womens asses? What you think we ENJOY having those shoved into our face 24 7?
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Post by BobJohnson on Apr 7, 2004 13:57:05 GMT -5
what I mean by "mixed messages" is that men tend to be raised more harshly because of their gender, thus their is misdirection in raising them that causes men to make mistakes, adopt very bad habits, and basically have failed relationships and marriages. So if you're gonna say "men are this" "men are that", look at two sources, one: they are naturally the dominant species and changing them is like changing a tv picture tube, explosive results. Two: their parents have equal share of that attitude of women, that includes the *shock* mother.
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Post by marytrobot on Apr 7, 2004 13:57:12 GMT -5
So I was gonna write down the whole song but I'll just write down the verses that point out some things.
So what am I not supposed to have an opinion Should I be quiet just because I'm a woman Call me a bitch cos I speak what's on my mind Guess it's easier for you to swallow if I sat and smiled
When a female fires back Suddenly the target don't know how to act So he does what any little boy will do Making up a few false rumors or two
That for sure is not a man to me Slanderin' names for popularity It's sad you only get your fame through controversy But now it's time for me to come and give you more to say
This is for my girls all around the world Who've come across a man who don't respect your worth Thinking all women should be seen, not heard So what do we do girls? Shout louder! Letting them know we're gonna stand our ground Lift your hands high and wave them proud Take a deep breath and say it loud Never can, never will, can't hold us down
So what am I not supposed to say what I'm saying Are you offended by the message I'm bringing Call me whatever cos your words don't mean a thing Guess you ain't even a man enough to handle what I sing
If you look back in history It's a common double standard of society The guy gets all the glory the more he can score While the girl can do the same and yet you call her a whore
I don't understand why it's okay The guy can get away with it & the girl gets named All my ladies come together and make a change Start a new beginning for us everybody sing
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yousonuva
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Post by yousonuva on Apr 7, 2004 13:57:21 GMT -5
Yousonuva, I think you thought I was directing my whole post at you specificially, so I just want to clarify that only the first paragraph is really addressed to you. no, not me specifially, only generally. ;D
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Post by CherokeeJack on Apr 7, 2004 14:00:15 GMT -5
You can always watch outlaw for a nice shower of male ass.
I still dont understand how people find men attractive. Women blow my mind in every way. Men are just ugly.
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Post by CherokeeJack on Apr 7, 2004 14:03:55 GMT -5
Another thing, in my book "God" (or whatever is the higher power) is female.
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Post by Blurryeye on Apr 7, 2004 14:21:15 GMT -5
what I mean by "mixed messages" is that men tend to be raised more harshly because of their gender, thus their is misdirection in raising them that causes men to make mistakes, adopt very bad habits, and basically have failed relationships and marriages. So if you're gonna say "men are this" "men are that", look at two sources, one: they are naturally the dominant species and changing them is like changing a tv picture tube, explosive results. Two: their parents have equal share of that attitude of women, that includes the *shock* mother. Yes, you are totally right. Both the mother and father contribute to the mistakes, as well as the successes, men make in relationships, and the man's attitude in general. And of course nature plays a part. I know that men can't be changed very easily. That's why I've said that men aren't going to do much to stop the objectification of women or increase the objectification of men. Women will have to do it for themselves if that's what they want. And it will be a long time before women will be in positions of power equal to men. But it is happening, and attitudes are changing little by little. CherokeeJack and yousonuva's statements about men not being attractive, or just plain ugly, have made me start thinking about how strange it is that a woman can recognize and talk about another woman's beauty/sexiness, but heterosexual men often do not recognize beauty or sexiness in other men. I don't think they're lying or trying to cover up what may be perceived as "gayness", I think a lot of men really can't see it. I mean, I would be amazed if anyone could not acknowledge the beauty of this man: I posted his picture yesterday, but I just have to do it again.
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yousonuva
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Post by yousonuva on Apr 7, 2004 14:25:12 GMT -5
CherokeeJack and yousonuva's statements about men not being attractive, or just plain ugly What're you talking about? Please reread my note. I never said MEN aren't attractive, only our asses. In fact I even admitted there's a beauty in everything, including me- them. Cherokee said it, hit him.
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Post by CherokeeJack on Apr 7, 2004 14:25:16 GMT -5
CherokeeJack and yousonuva's statements about men not being attractive, or just plain ugly, have made me start thinking about how strange it is that a woman can recognize and talk about another woman's beauty/sexiness, but heterosexual men often do not recognize beauty or sexiness in other men. I don't think they're lying or trying to cover up what may be perceived as "gayness", I think a lot of men really can't see it. I mean, I would be amazed if anyone could not acknowledge the beauty of this man: I posted his picture yesterday, but I just have to do it again. He just looks like he needs a sandwhich.
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Post by CherokeeJack on Apr 7, 2004 14:26:35 GMT -5
What're you talking about? Please reread my note. I never said MEN aren't attractive, only our asses. In fact I even admitted there's a beauty in everything, including me- them. Cherokee said it, hit him. Just like a white man. Hit the cherokees.
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